DH, I know you like to go fast on a budget & I believe you still use an 4t65E-HD tranny.
So far a stock rebuild had gotten me down to the high 11's but after about 3 years of abuse, my 1-2 shift is starting to not hold and it may be time for my tranny guy to go in.
What have you found you have needed to upgrade within your tranny to hold down to the hi 10's/low 11's? Thanks in advance!
Dime
------------------ 84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph
Actually Scott (DarkHorizon) is running in the 9's with his 3800. As for the transmission, I wish that I knew. Zoomer from ZZ has run in the 8's with his mega-buck 3800 setup so these transmissions can obviously hold plenty of power. They could be just be PCM programmed for hard firm shifts that offer little slippage, they could use a shift kit or have internal modification. Lets hope that we get a reply on this as I would also like to know.. Here is the video of Zoomers 8 second 3800 run and he needed two turbo systems to do it. . [url] https://youtu.be/_1IBLusB3VM [/url] While slightly faster that DH's car he probably had to invest 10 times what Scott put into his car. While 8 seconds is a great achievement, my sentiments lie with DH's car. Both run the auto.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 12-24-2015).]
Actually Scott (DarkHorizon) is running in the 9's with his 3800. As for the transmission, I wish that I knew. Zoomer from ZZ has run in the 8's with his mega-buck 3800 setup so these transmissions can obviously hold plenty of power. They could be just be PCM programmed for hard firm shifts that offer little slippage, they could use a shift kit or have internal modification. Lets hope that we get a reply on this as I would also like to know...
The larger 1" chain is a bit part of keeping one together, as I understand.
Yeah, I was aware that he hit the 9's but I am assuming (I might be wrong) that he has had to upgrade this tranny (more $$$) again to hold 9's. Anyway, hopefully he will chime in on what he has found as a reliable recipe for a tranny to hold up to a 10.8 quarter in the Fiero as that setup should hold for me (and most of us for that matter ) as I do not plan to be any quicker than 11 flat anytime soon.
Yeah, I was aware that he hit the 9's but I am assuming (I might be wrong) that he has had to upgrade this tranny (more $$$) again to hold 9's. Anyway, hopefully he will chime in on what he has found as a reliable recipe for a tranny to hold up to a 10.8 quarter in the Fiero as that setup should hold for me (and most of us for that matter ) as I do not plan to be any quicker than 11 flat anytime soon.
It's pretty much the same recipe as any other automatic trans, like a Powerglide or TH-400, plus the bigger chain. Converter, hardened input shaft, better friction parts, etc…
Input shaft is one of the weak links. If it`s older than a 2003 get a hardened 4th clutch shaft. I have a 2000 and I just replaced the input shaft that was broken. I just got a stock one because my engine doesn`t even have 300 HP I did get a hardened 4th clutch shaft from Triple Edge Performance.
[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 12-24-2015).]
His transmission has a GM racing input shaft, GM racing 1" chain, I'm sure valvebody modifications similar to TEP, but I believe zzp built his. Not sure what tq converter he is running now.
I don't think you could duplicate his or my transmission for less than $2500 right now, and that's putting it together yourself. If you can find an input shaft and chain set for less than $2000 these days, your doing pretty good. Good clutches, shafts and valvebody work all add up quickly as well, add a converter that will last longer than a year and your pushing $3500 - 4000.
High tens low 11s, you looking at a 300m input shaft and 7/8" chain set, and the rest of the trans pretty similar. Triple Edge Performance has several different levels of builds available for different power levels. Dave definately knows the 4t65 inside and out and if I didn't build my own, I would order one from him a heartbeat.
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 137.66 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
Old M90 XP Cam time - 11.425 @115.60 1.543 60'
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 12-25-2015).]
Thanks for the responses. I will keep this info in mind when I have mine gone thru next. Might be this summer, 1-2 shift seems to be taking a little longer lately...
Not available new anymore, but they do come up for sale occasionally. Might be a chain, I put shaft and converter for sale in the next couple of months...
------------------ 10.007 @ 135.54MPH Best 60' 1.42 Best mph 137.66 Billet 6262 Precision turbo, PT1001 intercooler, ST1 cam, 140lb springs, comp pushrods, HV3, stock L32 bottom end and heads.
I have a question for anyone who knows. When you install a HD diff onto a non HD transmission do you have to do anything different to the output shaft? I read somewhere that the non HD output shaft is slightly a different length but that you could still use it. ZZPs HD upgrade only comes with a cover, diff and a different axle so I assume that you can use the output shaft that comes in it.
His transmission has a GM racing input shaft, GM racing 1" chain, I'm sure valvebody modifications similar to TEP, but I believe zzp built his. Not sure what tq converter he is running now.
I don't think you could duplicate his or my transmission for less than $2500 right now, and that's putting it together yourself. If you can find an input shaft and chain set for less than $2000 these days, your doing pretty good. Good clutches, shafts and valvebody work all add up quickly as well, add a converter that will last longer than a year and your pushing $3500 - 4000.
High tens low 11s, you looking at a 300m input shaft and 7/8" chain set, and the rest of the trans pretty similar. Triple Edge Performance has several different levels of builds available for different power levels. Dave definately knows the 4t65 inside and out and if I didn't build my own, I would order one from him a heartbeat.
And now with a billet precision torque converter with a billet flexplate. I was lucky to get this back in the day while the GMR chains were still available they were not that expensive used.... Its realistically a $4000 transmission if you ask me, I have no desire to sell it for less.
As far as you 1-2 shift problem... It is just the name of the game for these transmissions. The best option you have is to jack up the pressure as much as possible using the valve body and as many tranny builder tricks to get more pressure to the clutch packs. My transmissions clutch/gear holding parts are all readily availible in a simple rebuild... its the hard parts that get expensive and strand you on the side of the road.
I went nearly 10s on a factory stock 150k+ mile trans, so it really doesnt take too much to have fun.
And now with a billet precision torque converter with a billet flexplate. I was lucky to get this back in the day while the GMR chains were still available they were not that expensive used.... Its realistically a $4000 transmission if you ask me, I have no desire to sell it for less.
As far as you 1-2 shift problem... It is just the name of the game for these transmissions. The best option you have is to jack up the pressure as much as possible using the valve body and as many tranny builder tricks to get more pressure to the clutch packs. My transmissions clutch/gear holding parts are all readily availible in a simple rebuild... its the hard parts that get expensive and strand you on the side of the road.
I went nearly 10s on a factory stock 150k+ mile trans, so it really doesnt take too much to have fun.
4 grand sounds like a lot,, but when you think about it, it is about the same as what a rear drive front engine car would cost for transmission, converter and rear end..
4 grand sounds like a lot,, but when you think about it, it is about the same as what a rear drive front engine car would cost for transmission, converter and rear end..
It isnt hard to spend, but it does suck that the "$2000 rear end" is really just a stock 6 inch diff. For most of the world of racing cars that run 9s, $4000 is the labor you spend on the cage install, lol.
I was getting issues on the 11.4-11.7 passes, worse the more power I made of course. Smelled like a burnt clutch after each pass. I upped the pressures and it did not help much. I was just over powering a stock trans. Why push it until it breaks? Winter trans build was planned anyways.
I ordered up the Stage 2 kit from Dave, along with the PI billet converter, and his newly offered input shaft & pump shaft combo. The input shaft is still 300m, but it does not have the o-ring grove and I think it is a little thicker. You have to buy it with the modified 4340 shaft. Should help prevent those failures at the o-ring grove. I think it was like $2500 for everything. I already have a 7/8" chain, and still trying to find a GMR chain in a decent ratio and fair price. The few offers with a good ratio were obnoxious, but hey, its worth what someone would pay you for it. A local machinist claims he may be able to come up with a chain solution using a ZX 7/16 pitch 1" chain, but its been months. Busy guy. I will likely have to use the 7/8" unless I find a GMR real soon. Sad as I just got a billet 6265 for xmas and was hoping to have the trans the way I wanted.
Dark is dead nuts on, $4k+ in parts is what I would expect to pay in parts. Assuming I could find a GMR chain setup for $1500, plus the $2500 I have already spent and that fast, $4k. Figure a little more $ for other things you find when you open up the trans.
I would not cheap out on the trans. In the long run, it costs more to do it twice than do it right the first time.
Cory, sell me that chain/gear setup plz!
[This message has been edited by 2nasti (edited 01-08-2016).]
I agree, the 6265 should be lots of fun, right up to the 7/8 chain failure...lol.
quote
Originally posted by LFiero67:
Zzp tried making a 1" chain setup with the zx chain, didn't work out well. The GMR chain is a totally different design and material, not just bigger.
Your GMR should be a 3/8 pitch ZX 1" (identified by the dimple at the bottom of each mouse ear). That's what makes your chain so strong (ZX design/material). The ZX is a much stronger chain than the regular Hy-Vo.
My understanding is ZZP used a 3/8 pitch 1" wide regular Hy-Vo chain? The standard Hy-Vo material as in the 7/8 chain we already have, just 2 extra links wide. That adds very little strength.
7/16 pitch chains are much stronger than an equivalent material 3/8 pitch, then factor in the ZX design it should be quite strong.
I edited my first post, poor description of chain, left out that the 7/16 was the pitch and it is 1" wide. After reading it over, looked like I was talking about a 7/16 chain.
[This message has been edited by 2nasti (edited 01-08-2016).]
