Most Electric WP have problems. Many V8 have them and have to replace/rebuild the unit if they drive every day.
Draws ~12a full time and life (Mean time to failure (MTTF)) is 2000-3000 hours.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
They have some potential advantages, and new controllers use PWM to vary duty with load, so they don't necessarily draw full power full time. But, lifespan is still a concern and they probably aren't suitable for daily drivers as a result. For a weekend car or a show car or even a race car they can solve problems, but if you're going to spend 15 or 20 hours a week on one, you probably won't get a long life.
Most Electric WP have problems. Many V8 have them and have to replace/rebuild the unit if they drive every day.
Draws ~12a full time and life (Mean time to failure (MTTF)) is 2000-3000 hours.
Sorry, I don't agree.
I've been using Electric W/P's for 15+ years. I just looked it up & I've bought 300+ electric W/P's in the last 10 years.
I've never rebuilt one or had to replace one due to failure or "problems". I can only recall 2 or 3 customers who replaced or rebuilt them.
Everything from Proform to CSI to Meziere waterpumps. From 32gpm to 55gpm. Yes that's Gallons Per Minute, No stock pump of any kind can pump those numbers. the Electric W/P pumps those numbers all the time wether at idle or RPM.
Amp Draw, the most I've ever seen is 10a most are 5 to 7a.
10 years ago the pumps were rated 2000-3000 Hours. I'm sure today's pumps are as good or better.they don't show # or hours, they just say "Street Rated".
I doubt if many people drive 2000 to 3000 hours in 5 years. Besides, 2000 hours at 30MPH avg. is 60,000 miles. or if you drove 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 50 weeks, you'd have a sore butt & 2000 hours.
Thanks
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 11-02-2015).]
I believe that electric water pumps have come a long way in the last 20 years. In the past they were considered only for strip applications but today they are used as OEM equipment on some models of BMW's. There are undoubtedly reliable ones on the market that will last a long time and others that may not. For a collector car like a Fiero that is used primarily for car shows, cruise nights, parades and occasional drives, I would say that they are perfectly fine. For everyday use; my sons fiancee replaced hers at 48K miles; not quite as good as the belt driven units but still suitable for how we use our cars.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
My new daily drives has an electric steering pump, but still a standard waterpump (belt drive). I wonder about the efficiency, but the techonology has progressed.
For those using the electric pumps: Is it sensor activated? A certain set temp? Inline line with the coolant hose? I've never even seen one.
I've installed a couple of electric water pumps in swaps I've done over the years and I think only one customer ever had to replace one due to some kind of failure that escapes my memory at the moment. The ones I've installed were able to be hooked up under computer control so they didn't run 100% of the time the key was on (although they did run most of the time when the engine was running because I programmed the PCM to turn them on at a relatively low engine coolant temp to prevent hot-spots from forming in the engine during warm-up cycles).
Installing an electric water pump on a 3800 is usually problematic for most people because it creates issues with serpentine belt routing once the mechanically driven water pump pulley is removed. Obviously this isn't going to be an issue for everyone since some people have custom belt routing setups anyway.
Flow thru the cooling system is regulated by the thermostat. Even an open thermostat restricts coolant flow to a degree. Therefore the flow rating of any water pump isn't going to mean much as long as whatever water pump you are using is adequate for the job. Installing way more pump (flow rate) than you need isn't going to do you any good because of the restriction imposed by the thermostat. There are other more important factors to consider in a cooling system than just the flow rate of the pump. As long as every component in a given cooling system is adequate to do the job asked of it, you don't need anything more and installing components with more capacity isn't going to do you any good other than lightening your wallet.
That being said, I tend to think ahead and plan for contingencies. The problem I have with aftermarket electric water pumps is: what happens if you are on a road trip and your electric water pump fails? Are you going to be able to run to the nearest auto parts store and pick up a replacement? If I were to have an aftermarket electric water pump installed on any vehicle I take on a road trip, I would feel obligated to invest in a 2nd/replacement pump to take along with me in the event the one on the engine failed so I don't become stranded somewhere without any hope of being able to find a replacement pump quickly.
In most cases, the factory mechanical water pump that came stock on your engine is probably more than adequate for the job and there's no more reliable pump available you're going to be able to buy anyway. Aftermarket electrical pumps certainly aren't as readily available at most auto parts stores as OEM replacement mechanical pumps are, and we know all water pumps can fail at any time (electrical or mechanical). However, most of the time when mechanical pumps fail, the result is just a slow coolant leak. I don't think I've ever seen a modern mechanical water pump fail to the point it wouldn't pump coolant (unless you lost the belt driving it). If an electrical pump fails and stops pumping coolant (which is what usually happens when they fail), you're dead in hot water (pun intended).
-ryan
------------------ More is more. Less is not enough. Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
I've installed a couple of electric water pumps in swaps I've done over the years and I think only one customer ever had to replace one due to some kind of failure that escapes my memory at the moment. The ones I've installed were able to be hooked up under computer control so they didn't run 100% of the time the key was on (although they did run most of the time when the engine was running because I programmed the PCM to turn them on at a relatively low engine coolant temp to prevent hot-spots from forming in the engine during warm-up cycles).
Installing an electric water pump on a 3800 is usually problematic for most people because it creates issues with serpentine belt routing once the mechanically driven water pump pulley is removed. Obviously this isn't going to be an issue for everyone since some people have custom belt routing setups anyway.
Flow thru the cooling system is regulated by the thermostat. Even an open thermostat restricts coolant flow to a degree. Therefore the flow rating of any water pump isn't going to mean much as long as whatever water pump you are using is adequate for the job. Installing way more pump (flow rate) than you need isn't going to do you any good because of the restriction imposed by the thermostat. There are other more important factors to consider in a cooling system than just the flow rate of the pump. As long as every component in a given cooling system is adequate to do the job asked of it, you don't need anything more and installing components with more capacity isn't going to do you any good other than lightening your wallet.
That being said, I tend to think ahead and plan for contingencies. The problem I have with aftermarket electric water pumps is: what happens if you are on a road trip and your electric water pump fails? Are you going to be able to run to the nearest auto parts store and pick up a replacement? If I were to have an aftermarket electric water pump installed on any vehicle I take on a road trip, I would feel obligated to invest in a 2nd/replacement pump to take along with me in the event the one on the engine failed so I don't become stranded somewhere without any hope of being able to find a replacement pump quickly.
In most cases, the factory mechanical water pump that came stock on your engine is probably more than adequate for the job and there's no more reliable pump available you're going to be able to buy anyway. Aftermarket electrical pumps certainly aren't as readily available at most auto parts stores as OEM replacement mechanical pumps are, and we know all water pumps can fail at any time (electrical or mechanical). However, most of the time when mechanical pumps fail, the result is just a slow coolant leak. I don't think I've ever seen a modern mechanical water pump fail to the point it wouldn't pump coolant (unless you lost the belt driving it). If an electrical pump fails and stops pumping coolant (which is what usually happens when they fail), you're dead in hot water (pun intended).
-ryan
You make some excellent points but it can be said that some swap applications (in particular some V8's) may have fitness issues and in that special situation the electric water pump may provide a better solution. For those that drive with an aftermarket pump and are concerned with an unlikely failure, they can always carry an extra and they are easier to change than the bolt on pulley driven units. Then there is the option of the BMW electric water pump, easy to find, probably best for only a V6, but a bit pricey. As noted my sons fiancee got 48K miles of life from this pump.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
You make some excellent points but it can be said that some swap applications (in particular some V8's) may have fitness issues and in that special situation the electric water pump may provide a better solution. For those that drive with an aftermarket pump and are concerned with an unlikely failure, they can always carry an extra and they are easier to change than the bolt on pulley driven units. Then there is the option of the BMW electric water pump, easy to find, probably best for only a V6, but a bit pricey. As noted my sons fiancee got 48K miles of life from this pump.
I'm not saying don't run an electric water pump under any circumstances. I'm just saying, if you do, it would be a good idea to carry a spare with you on trips if you are using something that is an aftermarket part that isn't normally stocked at most auto parts stores. Getting your car towed ~15 miles to the nearest auto parts store (so you can change out a defective mechanical water pump) is going to be very cheap compared to getting it towed hundreds of miles back home because a new electric water pump has to be special ordered from who knows where.
That having been said, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel if you don't have to. If an OEM mechanical pump works fine for your application, why change to an electric? It isn't going to free up much power at all and you certainly aren't getting more reliability from an electric water pump than you had with the mechanical.
I'm not saying don't run an electric water pump under any circumstances. I'm just saying, if you do, it would be a good idea to carry a spare with you on trips if you are using something that is an aftermarket part that isn't normally stocked at most auto parts stores. Getting your car towed ~15 miles to the nearest auto parts store (so you can change out a defective mechanical water pump) is going to be very cheap compared to getting it towed hundreds of miles back home because a new electric water pump has to be special ordered from who knows where.
That having been said, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel if you don't have to. If an OEM mechanical pump works fine for your application, why change to an electric? It isn't going to free up much power at all and you certainly aren't getting more reliability from an electric water pump than you had with the mechanical.
Focusing on the OP's application, I would have to agree that on a 3800 swap the electric pump is of little value.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Personally, I still prefer mechanical pump over electric in any case. Its mostly because of reliability. Its pretty unusual for a mechanical pump to go out, especially completely in a few minutes. The only real issue that cause immediate problem is a broken belt. If you carry a spare (smart) even that is just a slight inconvenience and if you occasionally check/replace them, its never a problem. An electric has many possible causes for failing. On my V8 car, I kept Archies belt drive pump and it was never an issue. Even as exposed as it was, it never had a belt issue. I kept a spare and it didnt take 2 minutes to change it on the side of the road if necessary without even needing any tools.
Originally posted by tomsablon: "Even an open thermostat restricts coolant flow to a degree. " ryan, wasn't that 2 puns intended?
No. Ryan is correct. Open Tstat presents a "Metered" connection/opening to the system. Meaning Open Tstat always has some flow restriction vs no tstat.
Is same done to many heater loops in most vehicles. See my Cave, Heater
E-WP w/ thermal controller does not = Tstat control of engine temp. Even using this method, you often need a Tstat or reducer/restricter @ same place at Tstat to set max flow or never get heat in the cabin.
Tstat require heater or bypass somewhere in the system to keep flow. Example: Many Fiero w/ bend Tstats often has plugged heater cores etc.
"No. Ryan is correct. Open Tstat presents a "Metered" connection/opening to the system. Meaning Open Tstat always has some flow restriction vs no tstat."
"to a degree" that's an air conditioning service tech thermostat joke(i'm a hvac tech),,, for us it's a pun.
I've been running one for years. I run the Meziere designed for the 3800. I had a mishap where the pump didn't turn on after sitting for a while. I'm assuming some corrosion as a few taps got it spinning again and its been fine ever since. Both my intercooler pump and my water pump are meziere units and I haven't had any electrical/mechanical issues in many years of service.
