Pros and cons.

Has anyone used buddy Craig's method for JB weld to eliminate rubber numbers??

Any concern about metal gears allowing motor to get damaged??

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86 5 speed 2.5 Iron Duke

This appears that you're referring to the Generation 1 motors. I offer a rebuild service for them, so I have a little experience, plus information from this forum.

In every mechanical device, there is a point in the system that's weaker than the rest. For the Gen. 1 motors, this was the plastic gear. The rubber bump stops in them absorb the shock when the mechanism actually jams up at the end of up or down travel. I have used TFS plastic gears for years, without any problems, then something happened to their molds and the gears were coming out undersized and with concave teeth. This put all the force on 2 very small ares on the ends of the teeth and they would strip in very short order. TFS provided me with replacement gears at no charge but they had the same problem.

They notified their manufacturer and the next batch had some similar problems. This cost me a lot in rebuild labor costs and return shipping, which wasn't offered as compensation. Not wanting to absorb more loss, I have stopped using their plastic gears. I don't know if the problem has been fully corrected. I assume it has since they have put them back in their online catalog.

They also offer metal gears that don't have bump stops to absorb the shock. In my view, this transmits all the stress onto the metal fingers of the drive plate. These fingers become the weakest point in the system, and will likely be the next point of failure in the mechanical portion of the headlight system. If a customer wants these gears used in their rebuild, I will do so, but I only guarantee my assembly process. I prefer the customer purchase gears of their choice, so that portion is outside my warranty responsibility.

Dickman metal gears still use rubber bump stops which work like the original factory bump stops. Irregardless the gear material, the bump stops absorb the energy. The fingers on the drive plate are still the likely weak point, but at least you don't have them slamming metal against metal when they stop.

I've not encountered J & B weld motors, but it is a little harder substrate than the bumpstops. I think that it will also eventually crumble just like the originals. I have, however, found motors with pieces of bolt or threaded rod, hex nuts stacked on one another, and RTV filling the cavities. These were usually in motors I bought at the junk yards. Only the RTV filled motor was a customer's.

If you feel that your motor's gears are in good condition and you only need bump stops, I believe I have a batch that I removed from the motors that got the defective gears. Or I can send you a set of the ones I used to stop the ticking many encountered after rebuilding with plastic gears and rubber bump stops. I don't recommend my bump stops with metal gears, though.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 07-29-2015).]

I would say that most Fiero owners do not drive their cars daily and keep them as collector or hobby cars. Under these conditions, a Gen 1 rebuilt headlight motor has to last maybe 100 cycles at best to be of value. For instance I drive my Fieros to cruise nights, get together's, to the track and shows. I might get stuck in the rain once or twice a year and most of the events are held during daylight hours. If a headlight motor lasted for 100 cycles that's constitutes a lifetime of use. If your motors are rebuilt to last this long you will probably do a lot of business.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I rebuild my motors to last for daily drivers since I have no idea how the customer uses the car. I've designed and had tooling made to reassemble some things similar to what the factory did.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: I rebuild my motors to last for daily drivers since I have no idea how the customer uses the car. I've designed and had tooling made to reassemble some things similar to what the factory did.

Charlie I wonder if you could use the rubber windshield stops, those little triangle shaped rubber blocks that hold the windshield at the right height, you will find them under the lower part of the windshield, or at any auto glass place or parts store that sells windshield replacement material, the urethane or caulk types. They come in all sorts of sizes as well.

Just a heads up for you if you didn't know that already.

If you can't find them I will send you a bunch I have collected over the decades, I keep a mess of them in different sizes and they are easy to cut if need be with just a steak knife. I have got to send off that Moxie this week anyway to Melanie, so if you want to try them I will send some off with the box we have packed already, just haven't had the time to get to the post office..


Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-30-2015).]

I don't think the triangular shape would work because it would put some point of the mechanism against a tip. I know what you're talking about but I've never seen any small enough to fit into the space.

I have done R&D and found an alternate material that replaces some of the softer rubber bump stops. Those softer ones seem to gradually crush and allow the point set in the limiter to make contact again. This causes the motor to re-set or 'tick' as we describe it. My bump stop material is a little higher density, but still absorbs shock.

I have followed BC's rebuild process and used JB Weld. I used the existing plastic gears that had not stripped.
They all worked for several years until the old gears cracked or stripped on the teath.
My Fiero's are daily drivers, live in the northwest so it gets dark here about 4:30 pm in the winter. So they are always on going home and most of the time going to work

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"Because in a split second, It's gone"
Ayrton Senna

[This message has been edited by Ponnari (edited 07-31-2015).]

Thanks. I may do one set with and w/o JB weld

I am also glad the most expect the lights to go up and down more than 100 times before they break

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86 5 speed 2.5 Iron Duke

Ya 100 cycles on a driver would be 3-4 months tops (if turned on once a day), and only a month in real world use.