Project Tuesday is up and running, but not well. Really bad idle. I have been working with Ryan(DarthFiero) from sinister performance, but I feel bad taking up so much of his time. So far I have data logged and sent some readings to Ryan and he has said that basically it needs a lot of tuning to get the fuel issue corrected. Seems the car is running lean at idle and rich when I give it throttle. All sensors are performing as they should. For those of you not familiar with Tuesday, she is an 88 GT. 3.4pr with ported heads ported lower intake, truleo upper intake, mild cam,1.6 ratio full roller rockers, Sprint headers, 17# camaro injectors,7730 swap with DIS. 8.5# fidanza flywheel, cold start and egr delete. My next step is I plan on buying the stuff for tuning. The burn2 and the adapter for using the flash memory chip from Moates. I want to have this thread to try and eliminate any issues that might be causing the fuel issue besides the tune. And for support when I do start the tuning process. For example I rewrapped all my wring harnesses including the injector harness. If I mixed up some or all the injector clips what kind of effect would that have. I know there are two banks that fire, so say I have two from one bank and one from the other on each side.... Or the banks are switched entirely. Thank you in advance for any help. This project has been down for too long now, its time it get it running.
7730 ecm. I would have to ask Ryan what mask he used. I do know that he had 92 Berretta written on the mem cal when he sent it back. So probably same mask as the Berretta.
The burn2 is simple and cheap. You can even burn with your android device on the go using ALDLDROID. The ostrich is for making real time changes, then you still have to burn the chip, once you're finished emulating. Supposedly, you can use it with your android too,.although I haven't tried it yet. I don't own it, so i don't know. If it's the A1 or 88 mask (which are both simular), you'll be making changes to the main ve table and idle ve tables mostly. Tuner pro rt5 will be the best, friendliest program to use, as you can create and use history tables for blm to better adjust the ve tables mentioned earlier.
You'll find that Ryan gets amazingly close and its hard to improve on his tune. The changes will be fine changes.
You should have received an email with a header that had a date, your name, and a code mask, such as $88, or $A1....something like that, when he finished your tune. For datalogging, smooth acceleration and cruising at different rpms will produce the most usable data.
OK so it is the $A1 mask. I have no doubt Ryan would do a much better job at fine tuning than I will. This is something I would really like to learn. If I have the equipment and the knowledge I can tune far into the future if I ever make changes. When you talk about real time changes, is that while the car is still running so you can instantly see how it affects it? Im leaning towards the burn2 because I'm on a budget, but if the ostrich will help get a better tune with less trial and error I may decide to go that route.
I bought the burn2 because of $$ . If i wasn't married with kids, I'd buy the ostrich emulator and so on. Once you understand what your staring at, tuning and burning isn't too bad. Just be prepared to do like 70+ burns. There's a learning curve. For idle, open your bin, check out what is idle (max tps%, max veh speed, and so on), then data log in those parameters, then adjust the idle ve table accordingly. Then do it over, and over, and over, and......you get the idea
I forgot to answer the emulation question: Yes, real time, as in while the car is running, you can make changes and experience the effect.
[This message has been edited by f85gtron (edited 07-13-2015).]
Thank you for the info. So sounds like with the burn 2 it takes a lot of trial and error(tune and burn) and with the ostrich essentially you can get it dialed in and burn once.
Realized I would still need the burn 2 with the ostrich, so I went ahead and got the apu1. Tomorrow I'm going to set it up and get it connected using tunerpro5. Is there any need to knows or pointers. If watched some of Moates videos on you tube.
One question I have is whether I should be on 10k or open with the 7730. I thought it was 10k and I had my data logger set to that when I was logging the other day. Seemed to work fine, but on one of Moates videos I watched they stated it should be set to open with the 7730.
Open. The 7730 doesn't need the resistor. It needs dialog with tuner pro to talk. Instead of a data stream, like in the old ecm, it runs packets up and down the line, like Ethernet, about ten times per second, as opposed to once every second and a half. Data is MUCH faster than before.
You'll need to pull your .bin from the sinister chip and save it, using the apu, then you'll need the correct definition file to read it. Gmefi forum is an awesome source. I have a complete definition, but I don't know how to post stuff like that here. Pm me and I'll get you started if need be.
So I'm able to get a connection to the computer with the apu1 but it has issues burning. I erase chip which it will do and blank check works sometimes, but it won't burn chip. Fails every time. For the blm, do I need to datalog just at idle or do I need to drive around? I don't have a laptop so this could be an issue.
Read back through the posts f85gtron. And about the tune. Ryan did the tune just based off of the engine and upgrade info I gave him. He didn't have any data log info to be able to fine tune it.
For datalogging, steady foot is key. You don't want to activate ae (pump shot) with sudden acceleration and you don't want to hit pe (wide open throttle). Without a laptop, aldldroid is a great way to datalog. However you choose and works for you, first thing is to collect data. You want to look at rpm, map, and blm data.
For burning, you'll need to load the bin into the buffer, then select the chip, then set the buffer size per moates. Basically, you'll have 32k of data to place on the chip in the right spot, or less the chip won't work.
From the moates website: 4. If you are using TunerPro, look under the ‘Tools’ menu item and select the ‘Moates Prom I/O’ option. If you are using Flash n Burn, you should already be looking at this menu. In this menu you will need to do the following
in the correct order: Select the type of chip you’ll be programming from the drop-down menu. This will likely be either the AT29C256 or the 27SF512. Pick the ‘Load file to buffer’ option, and navigate to the file you want programmed on the chip. Select it, and it will be loaded to memory on the PC. Take note of the file size indicated in the message window. It will likely be one of four sizes: 4k, 16k, 32k, or 64k (kbytes). In the top right part of the window you will see the offset values that need to be changed. The file size along with the chip size will determine what offsets you need to use. (Flash n Burn usually automatically selects sane offsets based on your chip type and file size.) When you change the offset values, you will notice that other values will change automatically. It is critical that the correct values are filled in for all four boxes before programming the chip. You may have to go back and re-enter values depending on the order you enter them. The following table summarizes what offsets you need to use depending on chip used and file size:
Pay special attention to the 32k section. Start with 008000 00FFFF then 000000 and 007FFF you'll probably only have to start entering 008000 into the first spot, then the rest should change automatically to the figures posted here.
OK totally stupid mistake. There are two 27sf512 options and one says read only. I had that one highlighted so no wonder it wouldn't write. I have the chip programmed now so I'm going to get it put in and try some emulation. I'll let you know how it goes.
Failure. With new chip installed it starts but dies immediately. Also the fan kicks on when I turn the key on now. So either wrong bin or I did something wrong.
Ok. The chip was a bad burn. 1. Choose the correct 27sf512 2. Choose erase chip 3. Check for blank 4. Load file to buffer 5. IMPORTANT! Double check chip addresses 008000->00FFFF
buffer address 000000->007FFF
6. Click program chip 7. Verify chip with buffer Should be good to go
When a chip doesn't take a burn or is corrupt, the ecm goes into liImp mode, notated by the cel light on rapid blinking and the fan on. If you have a chip piggy back, should start and run on that chip as a default.
[This message has been edited by f85gtron (edited 07-26-2015).]
So I got it to work. Now I'm trying to figure out if my tablet supports the USB 3.0 for the ALDLDROID APP. Also I I'm going to need to get a cable to hook up my tablet to the apu1. I did go ahead and do a data log with it at idle and with a little throttle. f85gtron would it be alright if I email you the log. Hoping you could point out some changes I can do in the meantime so that it can be running better when I do the rest of the data logging.
Back at it. My tablet doesn't support the aldl droid ap so I had to download it to my fiancee's phone. Tomorrow I want to do a good data logging run. Before I do my data log I still need to burn the chip now that I smoothed out my ve tables. Is there a way to do the ve table smoothing on the ALDLDROID ap and burn it. Also how do I get my bin loaded into the ap for tuning.
Also when I make changes to e ve tables I'm making changes to the bin correct. Nothing else changes? Going to go ahead and burn the chip with the smoothed out ve tables but I wasn't sure if those changes were on the bin I was loading.
If your tablet is Windows, regular tuner pro rt works perfectly. For some reason, the Aldldroid burns chips, but they are corrupt. All the info gets burned in the right spots, but my guess is the checksum calculator isn't right. I've posted debug logs at the request of the developer, but he hasn't got around to solving the problem. I'm too inpatient, so i grabbed a Windows tablet and do everything with that. I like the Aldldroid better though. Post a datalog after you get one. I'll help you read it.
Make sure to not record until its warned up around 180°f or more. You'll get more accurate data that way. Turn off highway fuel, lean cruise. That way, you'll get correct blm data.
You can save a copy of your bin and make changes to the copy each time. That way, you can go back if you run off in the wrong direction. Yes, the ve tables are in the bin. Just the bin is affected each change. You can make changes in aldldroid, then email to your laptop and open in tuner pro, then save in tuner pro and then burn your chip. Thats how i did it before i got the Windows tablet.
I've found 4 items in the $A1 to change to make sure lean cruise is not active during datalogging: Lean cruise option (x for active,.blank for off) Lean cruise afr (you can leave this value. Probably around 15.5) Lean cruise enable speed (move to 255mph or whatever the highest setting is) Lean cruise disable speed (max this one out too)
Okay I found that stuff. I had never clicked up in that corner and seen those options. So do I just do that while data logging or do I need to be emulating that into ecm and datalog going.
You have to change those values, save them, then burn a chip then install into the 7730, or emulate with those changes, in the case of the ostrich. I reviewed the log and the coolant temp and mat temp both look suspect. Can you check yours and see what you find? Mine shows coolant temp never rising above 84° and mat never breaking 40° . If that's what the ecm sees, then it will always command rich.
It has both Celsius and fareinheit the fareinheit has it at around 190 max and MAT at 107. The BLM seems off they go up over 128 at idle and below 128 under throttle. I was reading the thread on geahead about adjusting ve tables with blm data. I need to download the spreadsheet for the 7730 but couldn't find one. Couple other questions. How do I get my bin on to ALDLDROID so I can emulate. And to get this straight, to turn the highway cruise off I can do that with tunerpro so that I can burn it that way.
Uncheck the highway mode or lean cruise option, then save bin change and burn onto chip. That way, you know it's off. The mat and coolant sensor values you posted are good. I was looking at it on aldldroid on the adx that came with it. I'll look at it on tuner pro. I saw one blm instance crack 140. That's way off. Int swings like that are kind of ok, but not blm. Wow. Are there any exhaust leaks that you can hear?
I forgot to answer how to get your bin into aldldroid. You can simply email it, then download from email onto your phone, then move it into the Aldldroid bin folder. Once there, You'll be able to go to the tuning section, then choose the correct tuning files, then navigate bin. I think emulation takes place from there too.
Thank you. I can't think of anything that could be wrong with the engine unless it doesn't like the 1.6 roller rockers I have on there. Its a remanufactured 3.4 engine I had built with mild cam and ported and polished heads. I polished the lower intake. And have truleo upper intake. The rockers are scorpion 1.6 ratio full rollers. I set valve lash with intake off to be sure I had it centered. Replaced all vaccuum lines with new rubber lines. 8.5lb fidanza flywheel. One thing that may cause some issues is there is no egr and no cat. All the work is freshly done.
Also someone posted some spreadsheet and blm analyzer info that he uses with$8D mask. Will that work for my A1. Im assuming I need more logged data before doing this step. Also I found highway fuel on tuner pro under flags. I'm assuming this is the one I want. It says x=yes but there is no x. Just a box to check that says set. It is already unchecked so I believe it's off.
I couldn't get any of the posted spreadsheets to work, so i couldn't advise if they work cross platform. I've been calculating cell by cell. I wish i could get them going, it'd be a whole lot easier! I assume your engine is good, just the tune is out of whack. I asked about the mat and coolant to double check my end. Biggest thing is fueling. Once that's in line, you're motor will be happy. Any changes you make to the main ve , copy and paste them over to the idle ve table so they'll be even when switching from off idle to idle conditions.
OK. My first issue is the log I took and transfered it to my computer and I can see it on a spreadsheet but I can't open it with tunerpro. I believe I need to change it to an xdl or xdf. Then I should be able to open it and see the changes I need to make.
