Spent half a day trying to figure this out, so i figured i would share what I found. Running a 12v fused feed direct from the battery to this relay circuit made my windows at least 3 times faster, well worth the time spent. I know you can buy kits for this, but I have a bunch of relays and my car is still apart from the chop so I decided to give it a shot.
is it the fact that you have two relays that makes it faster or is it that by adding another relay you have also effectively doubled the gauge of wire for the ground and a portion of the power. I wonder what would happen if you used a single but much larger relay
Its because the power to run the motor no longer has to got through the switch in the Fiero. Now the switch only has to carry a tiny load to activate a relay and the relay handles all the load.
A single relay wont work, you have to be able to reverse the polarity to the motor for the up/down movement.
[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 04-26-2015).]
Its because the power to run the motor no longer has to got through the switch in the Fiero. Now the switch only has to carry a tiny load to activate a relay and the relay handles all the load.
A single relay wont work, you have to be able to reverse the polarity to the motor for the up/down movement.
So on your diagram.....the + switch on one relay is the 'up', and the other + switch is 'down'...?
or you could install a 530t next to the switches doing the same thing sorry it is a 529t about. your idea is good but it doesnt do one touch down or up.
[This message has been edited by mmeyer86gt/gtp (edited 04-27-2015).]
Do this at A pillars is allot easier. You don't need to dig into the door. (Your car is in the shop but others can to same at A pillar below the dash.) A pillar you get a better ground too. If you ground in the door then ground path goes thru hinges and latch. Is not a good plan to do that.
Rodney speed up kit should be at A pillar too, not at the switch as directions say.
For others, You don't need to mod the switches etc. Switch grounds one wire for up or down but relay does not care when the coil gets ground to both terminals.
Problem is based on mainly 3 parts...
OE switches wear over time for switch high amps. Switching on and running a motor are bad enough but the stall current can be a lot higher. Stall current is at end of travel before you release the switch and is why GM uses 30a breaker. (Gen2 HL module sees any stall and shut down power to the motor(s) in milliseconds.)
Power to Zone 3 "cross car" harness have many other loads, connection, etc. Zone 3 is a sub-harness to Zone 2... Plug in at C200 under dash and is on Fuse Link A that runs most of car. (Zones See my Cave, Wire Reading)
Power to Motors goes thru all that. By the time motors get power, you often have Big Voltage Drops... 1V or more. Low Voltage means motors try to pull more Amps to make up the Watts needed. See my Cave, Electric Motors
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I did this MOD several years ago, and the windows did work better...
I Highly agree with theogre
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Do this at A pillars is allot easier. You don't need to dig into the door. (Your car is in the shop but others can to same at A pillar below the dash.) A pillar you get a better ground too. If you ground in the door then ground path goes thru hinges and latch. Is not a good plan to do that.
Something I used that might be of help to anyone else thinking of doing this MOD is a Dual Relay Socket, makes for a cleaner/easier install.... and their only about $3.25 All Electronics- DUAL SOCKET FOR AUTO RELAY
A note I missed... Turn relays so top is pointing up and coat terminals w/ bulb grease or brake/silicone grease. Why? Door guts are very wet when car is washed etc. Helps keeping terminals dry/drier. Is another reason to do this in the A pillar.
Orig88GT-NC, thanks for the socket #. Many sells single sockets as pig tails. The pig tails are easy to work with.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 04-28-2015).]
Do this at A pillars is allot easier. You don't need to dig into the door. (Your car is in the shop but others can to same at A pillar below the dash.) A pillar you get a better ground too. If you ground in the door then ground path goes thru hinges and latch. Is not a good plan to do that.
Is there a write-up on this mod? I looked through the cave and could not find it.
Originally posted by sjmaye: Is there a write-up on this mod? I looked through the cave and could not find it.
Not there. Just follow top post but pull down carpet to access car side wiring on A pillar inside of car.
You add power and ground wires to the relays but should be same size as wires to the motors and pink wire... Power should come from same + pink wire for PW switches w/ 30a Breaker protecting the circuit.
But You have to "rewire" OE PW switches to use them too. Likely Drk Blu and Drk Bru/wht goes to up relays. Brn and Tan to down relays. These Wires get short to ground for oposite direction but easy the release the ground wire on the switch plugs by pushing very small screwdriver in front slot and pull out from back. (Could likely ignore that ground wire since relay coils won't care if connected to ground on both ends.)
Maybe can get pink wire by removing bottom trim for dash pod. It goes behind and under the radio. Not sure exact where. Been a long time since I took the dash out.
Based on above plus Fiero SM. Note that SM diagram and others is wrong. Correct switch is a 3 position type w/ center off by default.
They should be installed in the A pillars or under dash too.
Why? Either area shortens the main power to the relays and motors. If a relay dies can quickly replace a relay. If needed for emergency can jump the relay(s) too. But Cheap Simply relays last for many years and most won't need to worry about that. Plus keeps out water etc from relays in the door.
Not there. Just follow top post but pull down carpet to access car side wiring on A pillar inside of car.
Want to fully understand the details. Please bear with me. Do I assume from above that I am pulling the carpet back to expose the PW wiring going the cabin through the rubber bellows out to the PW motor in the door? So, I will be positioning the 2 new relays just before the wiring leaves out to the door?
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Originally posted by theogre:
Power should come from same + pink wire for PW switches w/ 30a Breaker protecting the circuit.
Understood. I have located this via the factory service manual
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Originally posted by theogre: But You have to "rewire" OE PW switches to use them too. These Wires get short to ground for opposite direction but easy the release the ground wire on the switch plugs by pushing very small screwdriver in front slot and pull out from back. (Could likely ignore that ground wire since relay coils won't care if connected to ground on both ends.)
The IGNORE thing here. So do I or do I not remove that wire from the PW switches? I get by when it comes to wiring, but can you explain why the PW switch wires were originally wired to short to ground and why that wire is removed for this new configuration?
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Originally posted by theogre: Maybe can get pink wire by removing bottom trim for dash pod. It goes behind and under the radio. Not sure exact where. Been a long time since I took the dash out.
I have to do some gauge cluster work anyway. I will find the pink wire then.
Pull down carpet so don't mess w/ doors at all. Just pull down and see. May need to pull trim screws to pull down carpet. Should Have enough wires after seeing them to put relays under dash not in A pillar or under carpet. More so w/ dual relay pigtail shown above etc.
You Wire the new relays on car side of PW connector in A pillar so anyone can remove or even replace the doors w/o bothering abound wiring. Example: If top post had a door wreck in a crash and body shop doesn't know abound relays will cause problems and could fry any mod'ed PW switches sim to Fie Ro mod interior.
OE PW Switch for Fiero and Many others not just GM cars is made to reverse power to the motors for up and down. The "jumpers" for this is Built into the switch. Both Switch contacts are tied together to connect middle to top or bottom as you push one side or the other. (you pushing up makes contacts moving down because of rocker pivot.)
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Switch ground isn't needed for the relays and can remove that the wire from switch plugs and tuck it out of the way. Or not as I said in (). For simple relays, I would remove the black wire and fold/stuff ends away. It doesn't need tape or whatever but won't hurt. Could put a note/sign under them warning the car has relays (or RD's "module") in the A pillars or wherever to run PW now. You know but other won't working later.
I added this for one touch control but window are still slow with the new dew wipes.
amazon.com/Dire...n/dp/B00H4N1Y2O...
No surprise because most don't fix/clean the window tracks, regulator and more when they replace dew wipes. Plus the soft "pop rivets" GM used has worn out making everything loose and even window moves on the track it's attach to.
New Motors, relays, RD's module, and other "mods" often won't help until you fix the rest of window parts.
Relays mainly keep the PW Switch from burning out the contacts over time. Reducing Wire path to power the motors may help but many Relays and RD module next to the switches doesn't matter. Only time they speed up is when OE switches have already burn some.
Cheap relays can burn too but easy to replace if installed near A pillar. These relays should last 5 to 10 years or more depending on several things. RD module have relays w/ "snubers" to prevent contact burning but way too expensive for many.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 04-28-2020).]
Nope did all that and the window speed improved greatly. Had to get rid of the window scratchers so in went the new dew wipes and slowed everything back down.
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Originally posted by theogre:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LornesGT:
I added this for one touch control but window are still slow with the new dew wipes.
amazon.com/Dire...n/dp/B00H4N1Y2O...
No surprise because most don't fix/clean the window tracks, regulator and more when they replace dew wipes. Plus the soft "pop rivets" GM used has worn out making everything loose and even window moves on the track it's attach to.
New Motors, relays, RD's module, and other "mods" often won't help until you fix the rest of window parts.
Relays mainly keep the PW Switch from burning out the contacts over time. Reducing Wire path to power the motors may help but many Relays and RD module next to the switches doesn't matter. Only time they speed up is when OE switches have already burn some.
Cheap relays can burn too but easy to replace if installed near A pillar. These relays should last 5 to 10 years or more depending on several things. RD module have relays w/ "snubers" to prevent contact burning but way too expensive for many.
Originally posted by LornesGT: Nope did all that and the window speed improved greatly. Had to get rid of the window scratchers so in went the new dew wipes and slowed everything back down.
Something went wrong there. New Dew wipes should not to this. Have a binding problem for any reason will wreck other parts. Is part of why the OE rivets wear so bad.
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I Highly agree with theogre 
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