I'm planning to do an L67 swap on my Fiero chassis this summer but I'm a little disappointed with the performance numbers I'm seeing. I know of one sig that says 12.9 ET. According to one ET calculator that is about 250 whp in a 2900 lb car. So just wondering what is the best that has been done on a pretty much stock L67 long block (supercharged or turbo)
and you would be surprised at the HP they don't actually make. our cars are naturally weight balanced to the rear and the L67 makes more torque than the average engine. so we can RIP off some outrageous 60' times. We have High grip, Low Weight, High torque and Low horsepower and that screws up "HP calculators" so you'll notice 3800S/C Fiero's MPH in the 1/4 are low compared to other cars with the same Time.
I guess I don't really think these cars are particularly light. Isn't it about 2900 pounds for an L67 Fiero that is otherwise stock? I'm hoping to get closer to 2600 after the body swap I'm doing but I'm probably dreaming.
I'm a big believer in the basic physics equation F=MA. I think until grip becomes really important horsepower and weight far overshadow things like torque and power band.
[This message has been edited by carwhisperer (edited 04-25-2015).]
I know lots of people assume our cars are light as a feather but even @ 2900lbs that's about 50lbs more than a Notchback Fox body mustang that still has an interior, it's also about 1,000lbs less than a 2003 Mustang or 02 Camaro and an easy 200lbs less than a C5 Z06 (and they have balsa wood floors, shaved windshields and Magnesium wheels)
You don't understand how cars work if you think grip, torque and powerband aren't equally or more important than weight and horsepower. Horsepower is a derivative of torque
So I won't be disappointed with my 3800sc ? If it runs that is ......
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 04-25-2015).]
Torque = Acceleration (how quickly the mass moves from rest) HP = Top End (overcoming frontal area wind resistance)
I'll go for torque over horsepower any day.....
For the OP, 350HP is a lot for a Fiero. Whether we have 'a lot of weight' compared to other cars or not, a mid engine lay out is gonna provide us with characteristics that are seen in AWD cars. Before Dobey corrects me and starts explaining the engineering behind AWD let me explain.
From the wiki:
"The added weight on the rear tires can also improve acceleration on slippery surfaces, providing much of the benefit of all wheel drive without the added weight and expense of all wheel drive components."
Essentially, our cars hook up. Sure we could do burn outs but in street races (especially from light to light) even built Mustangs/Cameros/Chargers won't stand a chance.
Torque = Acceleration (how quickly the mass moves from rest) HP = Top End (overcoming frontal area wind resistance)
I'll go for torque over horsepower any day.....
I know people like to throw these ideas around a lot but how come all the popular 1/4 mile calculators use HP instead of torque?
I think it's because horsepower and weight are the two numbers that can be used most reliably to create a strong correlation to 1/4 mile times.
I am in agreement about mid engine cars being generally superior to front engine/AWD cars. AWD is heavy. AWD Lambos, for example are heavy pigs.
I have a 95 Ferrari 348 that weighs 3150 and is rated at 312hp stock. My next door neighbor has an 07 Lotus Exige that is rated at 240 but only weighs about 2000 lbs. He buries me. For me the cut off for a fast car vs. a slow one is about 10 lbs/hp at the crank.
Fieros are super cool but I think the plastic, mostly unstressed body panels, not to mention the iron engines, make them quite a bit heavier than necessary. The frame is really cool though. Similar to my F car. I've ditched my plastic body panels on my Fiero build and added a stressed steel body so hope I can do better on weight/stiffness than a stock Fiero.
But I'll be the first to admit that I'm not taking an entirely scientific approach so I'd better not count my performance before they're hatched.
Because it's a calculator and they are made for people who, well, NEED a calculator to get an idea of how fast their car might be
Notice none of them specify AWD FWD or RWD, gear ratios, suspension, etc... There are too many variables. We are not talking about estimates for a quick car, but what will make that car actually move and efficiently.
If you used a 1/4 mile calculator in reverse, meaning that you started with the numbers of real cars that you have had on a Dyno and run the 1/4 you would see that cars with more Torque would have better 60' and 330' times while cars with more HP will have Higher MPH and the all could run the same E.T. this is why supras have such high trap speeds compared to other cars that may run the same E.T. and why Shelby GT500 have such low Trap speeds for there E.T's
A HP calculator or 1/4 mile calculator can only make and educated guess.
A 2900lb fiero with a intercooled L67 and decent drag radials is going to do about a 1.5 sec and run the 1/4 mile in the High 11's will that car have 350hp to the wheels...... I'd bet not
350hp is stretching it for a supercharged 3800. Unless you're running race gas or e85 the biggest killer is spark knock. Squeezing that much power from that little m90 is a challenge. Intercooled Turbo charged 3800's stand up to 600-800 hp on a daily basis. It really comes down to efficiency.
350hp is stretching it for a supercharged 3800. Unless you're running race gas or e85 the biggest killer is spark knock. Squeezing that much power from that little m90 is a challenge. Intercooled Turbo charged 3800's stand up to 600-800 hp on a daily basis. It really comes down to efficiency.
My plan is to go turbo as soon as possible. At first I was thinking I'd do the swap with the supercharger initially, then turbo it later. But now I'm thinking I should do the turbo right away. What's a good boost number to shoot for on a stock long block with a decent IC (or maybe just water/meth) and some bigger injectors and a single 255 pump?
Wow! I finally got a chance to watch those dyno runs. Two guys around 460 to the wheels! Is there a "proven combinations thread" somewhere? I see the 1/4 mile thread has a brief description of their setup. I'm thinking something more detailed.
[This message has been edited by carwhisperer (edited 04-28-2015).]
let me explain. 
