So im putting the flywheel on with my new bolts on my 3800sc and set torque at 11 ft pounds. First bolt and snap head of bolt breaks off. Flush at crank., so much for putting flywheel and clutch set in and putting it in the cradle tonight. Im so tired of this swap at this point. So much time and money and its something esle now. I should have just left it stock. Now theses an engine on hoist in the midlle of my driveway just hanging there. And fresh cradle and trans painted for nothing now. $3,000 paperweight. Just like a boat a hole to throw money.
Yes sounds like the bolt was no good, this is why I stay away from the stock F body 3800 manual bolts plus they are $13 each here and use grade 8 bolts the only time I ever used the stock ones broke a few just torquing them and also thought my torque wrench was wrong so had it checked and it was not off. I have heard different reports on what grade the stock ones are but they can't be that strong or GM is getting really cheap with where it gets parts from. Also why I try not to give advice on which bolts to use cause some one else will just say I am wrong and say to use some thing else.
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DARN Cars now open with Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation. Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars. Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.
Yea they are stock f body bolts brand new from gm. There $8 each here. And i thought my wrench was broken but it new only used it one other time and it worked just fine. Can i run it with just 7 bolts? Is one less really that big of a deal. Otherwise everything will just sit and take up space and collect dust. I broke a cyclinder head bolt off years ago one time on an othe project and took months for me to try and get it out and i ended up bringing head to a friend and took us almost two hours to remove it. I dont want to load a whole motor up and do that again. Dan i sent you a pm i think yesterday sir.
So im putting the flywheel on with my new bolts on my 3800sc and set torque at 11 ft pounds. First bolt and snap head of bolt breaks off. Flush at crank...
There won't be any problem removing that broken bolt. Keep in mind that since the head has broken off, it's not in there tight. The easiest way to deal with it is to center-punch the middle of the broken bolt and then use a left-handed (reverse) drill bit. As it's drilling it'll eventually catch the broken bolt and spin it right out of there.
I suspect you were putting a whole lot more than 11 ft lbs of torque on that bolt. If your torque wrench is similar to mine (goes up to at least 200 ft lbs), it's possible it doesn't "click" very well at the lowest settings. That's the experience I've had with mine.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-21-2015).]
There won't be any problem removing that broken bolt. Keep in mind that since the head has broken off, it's not in there tight. The easiest way to deal with it is to center-punch the middle of the broken bolt and then use a left-handed (reverse) drill bit. As it's drilling it'll eventually catch the broken bolt and spin it right out of there.
I suspect you were putting a whole lot more than 11 ft lbs of torque on that bolt. If your torque wrench is similar to mine (goes up to at least 200 ft lbs), it's possible it doesn't "click" very well at the lowest settings. That's the experience I've had with mine.
What Patrick said, the bolt is not tight unless you cross threaded it. I have done this on a Ford flywheel a while ago. Got it out but removing the flywheel, then using a center punch around the edge of the broken part of the bolt to turn it back out.
Same experience with the torque wrenches as Patrick too. I don't trust my foot pound 1/2 drive for low settings. Bought a 3/8 drive inch pound wrench for that when started messing with GM intakes on the newer 3800 and such.
Well instead of putting cradle motor and trans back up in car tomorrow liked i planned on doing i guess my day will be wasted driving around town finding an extractor set and coming home to drill and then watch that break to like they always do and then back to step one again. What i big set back for something so small. I was getting excited to be close to the end. But not now.
I don't want to sound like an a-hole, but if one broken bolt is enough to scrap a project maybe you should rethink your projects. Bolts break all the time and when your working on cars that are 20+ years old it's a common problem. Invest in a good set of left hand drill bits and extractors. If the bolts won't come out easy with and extractor, don't force it, drilling a broken extractor is almost imposable. Worst case is you may have to drill it out completely and re-tap the hole. I've had to remove broken bolts from machines that cost over $250,000 and would hate to scrap it out over 1 broken bolt.
i guess my day will be wasted driving around town finding an extractor set and coming home to drill and then watch that break to like they always do and then back to step one again. What i big set back for something so small.
Same experience with the torque wrenches as Patrick too. I don't trust my foot pound 1/2 drive for low settings. Bought a 3/8 drive inch pound wrench for that when started messing with GM intakes on the newer 3800 and such.
After pulling wrenches for more than 45 years, I can fairly well estimate how tight to make smaller bolts without a torque wrench... but having said that, the next time Harbor Freight has 3/8" drive in lb torque wrenches on sale for $10 or so I'll pick one up.
China has been sending us not-as-marked grade bolts for decades. I'll bet that's where it came from. As Patrick said, the bolt won't be tight. If you have a dremel, you could cut a slot in it & back it out with a screwdriver. Otherwise, the left-hand drill bit will back it right out. Just make sure you get a made in USA grade 8 replacement. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Thanks for the advice guys. And yes i was using a 3/4 drive. And no one bolt will not make me scrap a project and no im not some cheap bum that had to scrap money together for a project. So i dont have to rethink my projects.plus the engine and bolts are not 30 years old engine came out of 2003 and my gm bolts are new. I was just kinda bummed to be so close and alot of work has been done last coulpe days since i started this swap so i was happy when all i had to do is mount flywheel and clutch set and drop it in cradle with trans. Then mount everything back in car that hasnt had a motor in it for months now. Ill get it handled one way or the other.
sorry i ment i used my 1/2 drive. and i didnt even get to touch any of the other bolts it broke the first one i did. it never clicked so i pulled a little more and then pop.. im waiting for the store to open now so i can find reverse drill bit. and start trying that. i really dont want to weld on it. since im still new at welding and havent had luck in past trying that method.
If the bolt is not super tight you might be able to get it with a center punch. Make maybe 3 center punch marks off center. Deep enough to work with. Then turn the center punch so you are loosening the bolt as you hit the center punch and start hitting the center punch. Keep working on all 3 center punch marks. It may rotate the bolt enough to eventually get a pliers on it. You need a sharp center punch. May or may not work but worth trying.
If you have to use an extractor it is not that big of a deal to use a regular right hand drill bit. Any hardware store has extractors.
I'm amazed the half-inch drive torque wrench had markings to let you set it for 11 ft-lbs. Usually the lowest value on a half-inch would be twenty foot-lbs. It would probably be best to use the smallest of the HF wrenches. It's marked in inch-lbs, so you would set it for 132 (11 x 12 inches/foot). BTW, if you had just snugged those bolts up without the torque wrench you'd be done now.
Thanks guys for the input i got just a extractor and bit well see how far i get. And yea i wished i used a smaller wrench. Or even just snug them done . This is a crapy set back for sure I was hopeing to have all back up in car today so i could work on fuel and coolant lines.
I was worried about the same issue when selecting flywheel bolts. I bought mine from gmpartsnow.com and paid $3 a bolt. The bolts do say GM but they also say made in Taiwan on the package. The HB 3/8 drive torque wrench I have barely clicked at the 11 foot pound setting, then there's still the angle tightening to go. At the low torque settings it is easy to miss the click of the wrench. So for the bolt head to snap it must have been wrenched far past 11 foot pounds. I have briken off HB extractor bits on other jobs (slave clutch cylinder bracket into bellhousing) so be extremely careful using them. I like the punch idea better.Drill out that bolt before the red loctite sets !
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 02-22-2015).]
I got the engine and hoist out on driveway and about to do work. Lol atleast im in south florida . Sunny and warm. Atleast im not doing this in snow. Lol
Like I said, I didn't mean to sound like an ass. Broken bolts are common even in new machines. If you do any wrenching at all a good set of left hand bits are a must have. By the way, I feel the same way when one breaks. You yell and scream, then grab the bits and get the sob out.
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
I took a pic to Show how much of it is really in there . Broken head next to a normal one . But cant get pics to load on here. Out of 14 threads they are 4 left on broken head. So that means like 10 are in the motor. Im drilling now
Were all in now . Flywheel , clutch , throw out, motor to trans and all in cradle. Fierogt i did use brand new gm bolts. And patrick yes lesson learned today dont listen for the click . Lol thanks everyone for help. Much appreciated.
Cradle poly bushings going in the morning. Then putting cradle back up in car . Just trying to find a custom bracket or some way some way the manaul 4speed shifter cables are right in the way of the exhaust cross over pipe.
I sure hope you did the extra 50 degrees with the angle guage or that thing's gonna come off while driving! I coated my gm flywheel bolts in red loctite too when installing my flywheel.
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
yes I did the 11 plus the extra and used loc tight on most of my important bolts. just to be safe. just got done putting my poly cradle bushings in. and torqued down supercharger and put fuel and injectors and feul rail back on to. starting to paint my vavle covers then they will go back on. and today my egr delete plates will come in the mail. so ill mount them before, ill probley instaill cradle back in the car tomorrow.
