I came across what would seem like an easy solution for a fuel pressure regulator on single fuel rail engine swaps like the 3800SC series III. A fuel Filter with internal 4 BAR pressure regulator is used on the VW Beetle Golf, Jetta, & Passat. I am thinking that this just might work out to be an easy and inexpensive solution for my next swap. I believe that AN adapters might also fit on. Anyone know anything about this unit and if it will fit standard SAE fuel line?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
If you're talking about the part I think you're talking about it uses clip-on fittings and not threaded. You can buy those clip fittings loose, so it'd be my advice to just build fuel lines with the correct fittings. The alternative would be some weird clip->hose->barb->AN abomination that sounds like a lot of leak points to me.
If you're talking about the part I think you're talking about it uses clip-on fittings and not threaded. You can buy those clip fittings loose, so it'd be my advice to just build fuel lines with the correct fittings. The alternative would be some weird clip->hose->barb->AN abomination that sounds like a lot of leak points to me.
Russell makes an AN fitting adapter that will clip on and one that will screw on to a clip on fuel line. I am just not sure of the size of the fittings on the VW filter regulator. If they are 3/8" then all is OK. Russell #640850 and Russell 644123 See here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis...tting+Adapter+640850
and the one here is the type that we now use: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rus-644123 ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 09-15-2014).]
Does that filter/regulator have a vacuum port or is it a fixed PSI regulator? I think the 3800 uses a vacuum/boost referenced regulator
Wix #33737 is a 4 bar filter/regulator (fixed PSI) that costs about $40 and was used on the mid-2000 Vettes. The LS4 guys have been using it for years to run their returnless fuel systems.
Does that filter/regulator have a vacuum port or is it a fixed PSI regulator? I think the 3800 uses a vacuum/boost referenced regulator
Wix #33737 is a 4 bar filter/regulator (fixed PSI) that costs about $40 and was used on the mid-2000 Vettes. The LS4 guys have been using it for years to run their returnless fuel systems.
It also fits quite well in this location:
The 3800SC uses a boost referenced FPR and these regulators apparently do not have one The LS4 Vette regulator fits well looks good but I do not understand how a regulator can be described as 4 BAR when a N/A engine only needs a 1 BAR unit. The LS4 regulator/filter seems to operate without a vacuum port. I can only imagine that this type of regulator senses a drop in line pressure as engine demand increases and compensates accordingly. However, on a boosted engine the normal fuel pressure must increase by an amount above the added boost pressure . Can this type of fuel filer/regulator do this since it is not boost referenced? Probably not.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 09-15-2014).]
The 4 Bar refers to the line pressure on the output = 56 psi under all conditions.
The gen 4 ECMs use an injector flow rate table vs. MAP value for fueling. This table is the actual flow rate from the injector based on the fixed line pressure and the variable intake manifold vacuum/boost. It works quite well, but requires accurate injector flow data.
The 4 Bar refers to the line pressure on the output = 56 psi under all conditions.
The gen 4 ECMs use an injector flow rate table vs. MAP value for fueling. This table is the actual flow rate from the injector based on the fixed line pressure and the variable intake manifold vacuum/boost. It works quite well, but requires accurate injector flow data.
I see now how they do it. Higher fuel pressure and precise control of injector pulse width based on MAP readings . These filter/regulators then will not work for a 3800SC series II . As far as I know the VE tables in the 3800SC series II PCM are only used as a backup (if MAF failure occurs). Back to using a boost referenced regulator.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Rising rate is not the same as boost referenced. I don't see how you could run a boosted motor without a referenced regulator - manifold pressure is actively working against fuel pressure.
Rising rate is not the same as boost referenced. I don't see how you could run a boosted motor without a referenced regulator - manifold pressure is actively working against fuel pressure.
Yes, but when the ECM has a table for each map value (accross both vacuum and boost) corresponding to the "actual fuel flow rate" based on the rail PSI and boost pressure, all the ECM does is widen the injector pulse width as boost increases. With a base of 56 PSI and 14 PSI boost pressure, the pressure delta would still be 42 psi so the fuel will still spray just fine.
The same table is likely there for the applications with a vacuum/boost referenced FPR, only difference is the values are all the same because it maintains a constant pressure drop between fuel rail and intake manifold vacuum/pressure. The Gen 4 ECMs have a flag to set to switch between the various styles of fuel pressure control.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-16-2014).]
Yes, but when the ECM has a table for each map value (accross both vacuum and boost) corresponding to the "actual fuel flow rate" based on the rail PSI and boost pressure, all the ECM does is widen the injector pulse width as boost increases. With a base of 56 PSI and 14 PSI boost pressure, the pressure delta would still be 42 psi so the fuel will still spray just fine.
The same table is likely there for the applications with a vacuum/boost referenced FPR, only difference is the values are all the same because it maintains a constant pressure drop between fuel rail and intake manifold vacuum/pressure. The Gen 4 ECMs have a flag to set to switch between the various styles of fuel pressure control.
Sure, that makes total sense - but that "if" is a big caveat for running a non-referenced FPR! There also has be a few gotchas, including injector sizing and maximum boost. That concept works fine for 14psi, but on my XR4Ti the delta would only 31psi, and injector performance would surely suffer with only two bar effective pressure. I'd also be somewhat concerned about the ability to properly size an injector that is happy at idle and able to support such big flow for low fuel pressure+high boost scenarios. I'm sure it's all fine for low boost apps (stock-ish), but it seems a real limitation unless stock is your only goal.
Sure, that makes total sense - but that "if" is a big caveat for running a non-referenced FPR! There also has be a few gotchas, including injector sizing and maximum boost. That concept works fine for 14psi, but on my XR4Ti the delta would only 31psi, and injector performance would surely suffer with only two bar effective pressure. I'd also be somewhat concerned about the ability to properly size an injector that is happy at idle and able to support such big flow for low fuel pressure+high boost scenarios. I'm sure it's all fine for low boost apps (stock-ish), but it seems a real limitation unless stock is your only goal.
The thread was about their use with 3800SC S3 swaps and I doubt they will go higher than 14 psi.
For higher boost applications almost everyone switches to a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator.
series 3s function fine without rising rate regulators. I wouldnt be afraid to use a non boost referenced one.
vastly
The series III engine uses a returnless fuel rail and a very different DBW type PCM so I would say that the fixed pressure regulator would in fact work. Unfortunately my series III runs with series II (2003) controls.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
