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Electric Steering Assist!!!! by Ray_and_kevin
Started on: 02-23-2014 10:57 PM
Replies: 20 (701 views)
Last post by: dobey on 02-28-2014 01:14 PM
Ray_and_kevin
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Report this Post02-23-2014 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Ray_and_kevinSend a Private Message to Ray_and_kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am going through the GM shop manual to find the electrical diagram for the fuel pump. One of the entries is "Electrical Steering Assist". So it was something that was either contemplated or actually started but never saw the light of day.

Confirms info from another recent thread.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post02-23-2014 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.nexteer.com/tech...tric-power-steering/

http://www.caranddriver.com...parison-test-feature

http://cartech.about.com/od...c-Power-Steering.htm

just buy one.

Steve

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and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-23-2014).]

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seajai
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Report this Post02-24-2014 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post02-24-2014 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ray_and_kevin:

So it was something that was either contemplated or actually started but never saw the light of day.



Electro-hydraulic power steering was originally to be available on the '88 Fieros, but for some reason it was shelved at the last minute. A few '88s even left the factory with it installed and were delivered to dealers, but very few were delivered to customers. I think dealers were paid by GM to remove the electro-hydraulic systems and replace them with standard racks. A few complete Fiero electro-hydraulic systems (rack + hydraulics + controller) still exist, and a couple are currently owned by PFF members. Some people have talked about trying to reverse engineer the controller, but I don't think it has actually been done yet.
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2.5
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Report this Post02-24-2014 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is a shot under the fastback widebody concpet car seen at the Heartland Fiero show in Iowa.



The reservoir


The car
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tebailey
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Report this Post02-24-2014 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some Nissan electric fork lifts use an electric steering system. If the original 88 design was similar I can see why it was dropped. When they work they work great, but when they don't they're a PITA.
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dobey
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Report this Post02-24-2014 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tebailey:

Some Nissan electric fork lifts use an electric steering system. If the original 88 design was similar I can see why it was dropped. When they work they work great, but when they don't they're a PITA.


The original 88 design was electro-hydraulic, not fully electric.
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tebailey
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Report this Post02-24-2014 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So was the Nissan, forgot to mention that.
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Spoon
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Report this Post02-24-2014 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So was the MR2 Spyder 2000-2004

Spoon

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Report this Post02-25-2014 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:


Electro-hydraulic power steering was originally to be available on the '88 Fieros, but for some reason it was shelved at the last minute. A few '88s even left the factory with it installed and were delivered to dealers, but very few were delivered to customers. I think dealers were paid by GM to remove the electro-hydraulic systems and replace them with standard racks. A few complete Fiero electro-hydraulic systems (rack + hydraulics + controller) still exist, and a couple are currently owned by PFF members. Some people have talked about trying to reverse engineer the controller, but I don't think it has actually been done yet.


If someone can reverse engineer an original 1988 EHPS controller module without damaging the original one, I can provide a factory EHPS as a template. However, I believe that the problem will be in determining the original component values since a lot of the electronics appear to be set in some sort of compound. I do not know the purpose of the compound and would hesitate to remove it without knowing its function.

Nelson
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Report this Post02-25-2014 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spoon:

So was the MR2 Spyder 2000-2004


All second and third gen MR2s were EHPS, so 1990-2004. The pumps on the third gen cars have integrated controllers though, so they are more desirable for adding to other cars. The pumps and controllers from the second gen are also usable, though.
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Report this Post02-25-2014 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:
If someone can reverse engineer an original 1988 EHPS controller module without damaging the original one, I can provide a factory EHPS as a template. However, I believe that the problem will be in determining the original component values since a lot of the electronics appear to be set in some sort of compound. I do not know the purpose of the compound and would hesitate to remove it without knowing its function.

Nelson


Have a clear picture of this compound that's on the electronics?
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Report this Post02-25-2014 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most power steering systems suck as far as handling feel - you don't want them!

The Fiero has excellent steering feel. Unless you are handicapped, forget about trying to add a system that robs feel from the car.
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Report this Post02-25-2014 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:

Most power steering systems suck as far as handling feel - you don't want them!

The Fiero has excellent steering feel. Unless you are handicapped, forget about trying to add a system that robs feel from the car.


Yeah, take that nonsensical steering damper off as well.

There are plenty of reasons to add power steering to a car. The "robs feel from the car" is just nonsense. Even F1 cars have power steering now. And an F1 car is about the closest thing you can get to feeling the road, in terms of cars.
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Report this Post02-25-2014 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Yeah, take that nonsensical steering damper off as well.

There are plenty of reasons to add power steering to a car. The "robs feel from the car" is just nonsense. Even F1 cars have power steering now. And an F1 car is about the closest thing you can get to feeling the road, in terms of cars.



AMEN!!!

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

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RayOtton
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Report this Post02-26-2014 08:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RayOttonSend a Private Message to RayOttonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The steering damper is a personal preference issue. There are points to be made either way.

I added one to my '88 because I didn't like the way the steering wheel kicked over washboard surfaces. With stock size tires the increase in effort isn't noticeable and the steering is indeed smoother over short, sharp bumps.
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Report this Post02-26-2014 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FTF EngineeringSend a Private Message to FTF EngineeringEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by hnthomps: I do not know the purpose of the compound and would hesitate to remove it without knowing its function.


They call it "potting compound", and it's there for environmental protection, heat dissipation, or to simply hide what's inside (or all of them).

If it's like anything else coming from GM, it will contain custom electronics with non-standard part numbers on the chips. So even if you could see them, you still might not know what they were.

Is the coating laid on thin such that you can still make out the shapes of the components, or is it slathered on so thick that the whole thing is a siliconed blob? What color is the compound?
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Report this Post02-27-2014 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
Yeah, take that nonsensical steering damper off as well.

There are plenty of reasons to add power steering to a car. The "robs feel from the car" is just nonsense. Even F1 cars have power steering now. And an F1 car is about the closest thing you can get to feeling the road, in terms of cars.

Good damper is not noticeable for normal driving. Valve(s) inside close when you hit a bump etc and is easier to keep control of car.

"robs feel from the car" depend on system design and setup. F1 and others are not same setup vs most street cars, especially old cars. Comparing new types to old is bs.

Fiero uses electric pump to run same hydro rack as many car in the '80s. (likely rack has tweaks too.) Epump was early attempt at speed sensing PS and likely eats allot of power.
GM pulling the option from Fiero and Everyone thinks is just BS because bean counters barfed on the option...
Maybe GM was trying to stop another recall. Ever tried to drive a PS car with a bad pump? Iffy electric electronics or pump is bad. A dead pump for any reasons make steering harder then a plan rack. Allot harder.

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Report this Post02-27-2014 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Maybe GM was trying to stop another recall. Ever tried to drive a PS car with a bad pump? Iffy electric electronics or pump is bad. A dead pump for any reasons make steering harder then a plan rack. Allot harder.


The PS pump on my del Sol went bad about 6 months ago. I haven't had time to pull it off yet. I just removed the belt. Driving the car isn't any harder with the pump not spinning. It's only harder to turn at very low speeds, and it's not terrible then. I've been driving it for 6 months like that with no issues. Looping off the hoses at the rack and removing the pump entirely, is also a very common mod on Hondas when doing engine swaps.

It's really not that bad. And my comment about the steering damper was sarcastic (since you apparently didn't get that). A lot of people like to complain about anyone who wants to put power steering on a Fiero, for no good reason. It has nothing to do with the age of the system.
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Report this Post02-28-2014 07:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Has anyone had the shop in Melbourne Fl. install the electric ps system that they offer and if so how is it?
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dobey
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Report this Post02-28-2014 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Csjag:

Has anyone had the shop in Melbourne Fl. install the electric ps system that they offer and if so how is it?


Which shop and system are you talking about?
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