I have a 93 northstar in my 1989 Lamborghini kit car. its all stock and came from a 93 sts with the auto trany. the problem I am having with it does not have any power. I cant even spin the tires on gravel. I can get the car to about 70km but that's it trany will not change gears. I am thinking that it has to be wiring or that it is in limp mode. I don't think the computer has had anything done to it.
can some one point me to a fix so this car can be driven. and how do I put a pic in here
------------------ 1995 fiero Lamborghini kit 1986 fiero 4.9l swap in the works 1987 fiero 2.8l stock at this time.
[This message has been edited by Dave_m (edited 01-28-2014).]
Do you have a Cadillac shop manual or the wiring diagrams for the stock Caddy (and for your Fiero?)
You need to verify first that the right things are hooked up where they need to go. If the PCM and trans aren't wired correctly to begin with, then further troubleshooting would be a waste of time.
Once you've made sure that everything's wired up as it should be, then you can try adding the anti-lock module.
Is it slugish the whole time? If not you may have a worn out tranney and its not going into the final gears. Might allso be the CAT, and would most likley be glowing red hot.
wont idle it starts fine and if I keep giving it gas it will stay running as soon as I let gas off dies when its warm it will idle but goes to almost dying to 1300 rpm
no power
I cant even spin the tires on gravel
wont shift
I can get to about 70km but wont shift past there engine is at a very high rpm when I am doing about 50km and let off gas its like it goes into neutral rpm goes down to almost stalling then shoots up to 1000-1200 rpm and back down when I give it gas again I have to get rpms back up before trany engages again
it has been wired to piggy back the fiero computer as well. I am going to fix that
No its not sluggish it takes time to get going but when rpm's are up she goes good.
[This message has been edited by Dave_m (edited 01-29-2014).]
Do you have a Cadillac shop manual or the wiring diagrams for the stock Caddy (and for your Fiero?)
yes I do and it seems every thing is right
You need to verify first that the right things are hooked up where they need to go. If the PCM and trans aren't wired correctly to begin with, then further troubleshooting would be a waste of time.
Once you've made sure that everything's wired up as it should be, then you can try adding the anti-lock module.
I assume you bought someone else's mostly or partially completed project.
The FIRST thing you need to know is that there will likely *NOT* be an easy answer. You may think there's one, which I assume is what drove you to post exactly the same question in the thread I asked you to *read*.
If you bought this from someone and it wasn't running well, that means he didn't know what he was doing. If the guy who built it doesn't know what's wrong with it, NO ONE KNOWS. However, people can help you figure out what's wrong with it, BUT you will need to do a lot of leg work.
In other words, you're going to have to learn a lot about the way the system works and do a good bit of troubleshooting. If you don't know how to do electrical troubleshooting, you're going to need to learn how to do that, too.
Get Cadillac and Fiero wiring diagrams and verify that EVERY WIRE in the engine wiring harness does what it's supposed to do.
For all the things I've just mentioned, Google is your friend.
Originally posted by Dave_m: I can get to about 70km but wont shift past there engine is at a very high rpm when I am doing about 50km and let off gas its like it goes into neutral rpm goes down to almost stalling then shoots up to 1000-1200 rpm and back down when I give it gas again I have to get rpms back up before trany engages again
It sounds like it's stuck in 1st gear.
If the shifter is in D but the transmission stays in 1st, then the car will not have engine braking. This will give you the result you talk about, where the engine drops to idle when you lift off the gas and you have to bring the RPM back up to get it to accelerate again.
Either it's a systems problem and the computer isn't commanding the upshift (I have no idea how that could happen) or it's wired to be stuck in 1st.
Reduced power (can't spin tires on gravel) is lilkely a systems problem, but you will be "spinning your wheels" (LOL! I kill me ) trying to diagnose it until you verify that the engine is wired correctly.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-29-2014).]
replied in other thead, you need to get rid of stock fiero ecm. you will need the ebtcm from donor. the shift issue could be cracked. solenoids or wiring issue.. idling issue you need to pull the codes the ipc wired in will help a lot.. sounds to be stuck in 2nd. without communication from ebtcm it defaults to 2nd gear starts. mine was great above 50mph but weak below that and took forever to get up to speed... all has been fixed by ebtcm. sounds you have multiple issues not all regarding ebtcm..
87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a Northstar Rebuild
[This message has been edited by jb1 (edited 01-29-2014).]
Originally posted by jb1: sounds to be stuck in 2nd.
Sounds like it's stuck in 1st to me... The lack of engine braking is the differentiator. Because of the sprag, all transmissions with the Simpson 3 speed gearset don't have engine braking in 1st when the shifter is in D. We never notice because they should upshift to 2nd as soon as you let off the throttle in 1st.
to me it seems if stuck in 1st it wouldn't be so slow accelerating. his description of slow to get moving etc sounded just like mine at first, a stock 2.5 with 2 dead cylinders. would beat mine to 30 before I got it right.
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a Northstar Rebuild
I dont think that it is fist gear. When i stomp on the gas i do have a kick down and im gone just cant get it to go faster then 70km engine is at a high rpm so i dont push it.
to me it seems if stuck in 1st it wouldn't be so slow accelerating. his description of slow to get moving etc sounded just like mine at first, a stock 2.5 with 2 dead cylinders. would beat mine to 30 before I got it right.
quote
Originally posted by Dave_m:
I dont think that it is fist gear. When i stomp on the gas i do have a kick down and im gone just cant get it to go faster then 70km engine is at a high rpm so i dont push it.
Dropping to idle from high RPM when lifting off the gas is DEFINITELY first gear.
What you describe as a "kickdown" may be converter slip or flash
If it had the 2nd gear start problem described in the other thread, it would not kick down.
I'm going to have to concur with Will. He knows what he's talking about. I expect that you have several problems with the swap. Personally I would gut the entire engine harness and start over.
I fail to see what the fiero ECM is doing other than giving you a headache. If I'm not mistaken, the th80 trans requires a control module of some sort, one your fiero ecm will not provide.... That might be a reason why its not shifting out of first.
If your serious about fixing your problems, actually read that thread he posted, as well as several others with the search button.
Ya i will first get the fiero ecm out and start looking at every wire. My thinking is to get a new harness and start working from that. Due to me not knowing what all was done to this one
I'm with JamesBond, it's probably the CAT or a worn out trans. You guys are overthinking this, the wiring doesn't really matter.
I'm not sure where you have come to that conclusion. The trans requires a controller, if the original owner didn't know what he was into, as most projects tend to be overwhelming... Then he might not have done it, or known. The engine is probably in limp home mode because of improper wiring... If the ECM isn't receiving a signal from the crankshaft pos. sensor or an output on the ignition module.. Or the egr... Or....
I'm with JamesBond, it's probably the CAT or a worn out trans. You guys are overthinking this, the wiring doesn't really matter.
May or may not be the trans or Cat...but this is a situation where you really need to prove the basics first. Since the PO had elected to try to piggy back the Fiero ECM, I think you'll need to go through the wiring carefully, one wire at a time, to confirm they are hooked up correctly. Wouldn't be the first time several wires were crossed at this stage of the game...with unpredictable results. I don't think this is overthinking it, this is just intelligent troubleshooting based on a questionable wiring setup.
Northstars are tough to wire. So make sure you dig into the forums to work your way through it.
It could be many different issues. It is not over thinking , it is no one here can put there hands on car to figure out other than op.
I agree baby steps. first thing is get car running and idling on its own and get it to read codes. once wiring straightened out and idling on its own then move on to drivability.
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a Northstar Rebuild
it was built in 2006 Gainesville GA it was built as a daily driver. according to the records I have, every thing worked and it passed the emissions insp. in oct of 2006 it was sold to the guy I got it from, he had brought it to Edmonton Alberta to do it up as a show car but he ended up just driving it and soon he had blown the head gasket. he had let it sit for some time and soon I had seen it on the web for sale. I had bought it in dec of 2012. I had fixed the engine repainted the engine bay as well as found a mouse nest where there was damage to wires. I had fixed the wires that I found and from all that I could see everything should be ok.
now as for the car (the kit) its a 1989 Lamborghini Countach 25 anniversary edition built on a 1985 Fiero platform it has been stretched. its a SMC replica body original tail and head lights org curved glass single countach wiper arm original countach wing doors and strut arms original countach rear wing all original name plates and badges
it was appraised as it is now for $25,000.00
I love my car I had always wanted one so if it takes me 10 years to fix it (right) then I am willing to do it.
[This message has been edited by Dave_m (edited 01-29-2014).]
Search the net about cracked solenoids, it is common in the older 4t80e. seems to be the same issue you are describing. You can buy new solenoids with the updated holders for around $70 pair. keeps us posted on how it turns out. http://www.cadillacforums.c...deville-wont-go.html
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87GTseries 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) (series II swap in progress) 85GT Northstar/ 4t80e 86GT 3800 n/a Northstar Rebuild
[This message has been edited by jb1 (edited 01-30-2014).]
Will, what do you think about getting a full new harness from a car with same year and engine with the computer and starting from scratch. I am thinking it might be better to do due to me not knowing what has all been done. I have also thought of pulling the engine and trany and going with a 4.9. I am just putting a 4.9 into my 86 gt all i need to do to it is mount the engine and wiring so I know what I am doing (sorta) I have a guy that has done it (Reallybig) who is a member here this is his thread.
I hope to have my 4.9 running in 2-4 weeks. the 4.9 has been so easy this far I am sure the wiring might be harder but reallybig has every thing so well documented and is willing to help when he can.
might be worth the loss of HP in the lambo
[This message has been edited by Dave_m (edited 01-30-2014).]
I think that a 4.9 in a Countache would be disappointing... but I'm a horsepower junkie.
Whether you go with a new harness or keep the one you have, you should still go through it wire-by-wire.
If you want to get a new harness, you can use a harness from any Northstar Cadillac up to '95 and it will have all the wiring you need to install it in a Fiero or kit car.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-30-2014).]
I think that a 4.9 in a Countache would be disappointing... but I'm a horsepower junkie.
Whether you go with a new harness or keep the one you have, you should still go through it wire-by-wire.
If you want to get a new harness, you can use a harness from any Northstar Cadillac up to '95 and it will have all the wiring you need to install it in a Fiero or kit car.
The 4.9 does give a great low end kick. The Northstar would be a better range of power. Really depends what you are looking for. I'm doing a 4.9 swap for my Murcielago build, with the intention of adding a 7-8psi boost turbo to help out the top end. I would like to do something more exotic at a later date, but I wanted to start with something manageable that would make it fun for the time being. I love the low end acceleration, but just don't like the thought of the tickets associated with too much hp. When I do the next engine upgrade, I'll invest in a second cradle so I can get a chunk of the build done before pulling the car out of commission to complete the swap.
I have also thought of pulling the engine and trany and going with a 4.9.
you've got most of the hard parts of a N* swap done. It would be shame to have to redo all that for a low tech 4.9 and it would be a shame to have that low tech 4.9 in such a nice looking rebody. I am in the middle of a 2006 N* swap with which I plan to use the stock caddy ECM/TCM (not possible with 2nd gen N* prior to 2006) that has been reprogrammed by Ryan Gick over at Sinister Performance aka Darth Fiero. Would love to be able to tell you how good it works but I'm not there yet but I'm kinda excited to be the first (to the best of my knowledge)to have tried this. Bottom line.....since the basic architecture is the same and if you're going to swap motors anyway go with something newer that will bolt right in and all you've got left is wiring and computers.
) trying to diagnose it until you verify that the engine is wired correctly.
