87 GT 5-speed

I've been kicking around the idea of a swap for many years now but the stock motor just keeps kicking. Well, before I put it away this year I started noticing that the clutch was starting to slip and this gave me an excuse for a swap. I've read countless threads over the years but just kind of wanted to do a little checklist for myself, please contribute because I'm sure I've missed things.

In no order at all:

-In search of the donor 3800 from a 2000 GTP. I definitely want a series 2/OBD II and from what I've read this motor has the best oil filter placement.

-Keeping stock trans using a spec stage 3+ clutch and camaro flywheel (machined to .840)

-Hoping to use Sinister (darth fiero) for tuning and outsourcing the harness (would like plug and play); phonedawgz??

-ZZP for any HP adders

-West Coast Fieros for motor mounts or may fab my own

-Keeping stock 3800 belt arrangement with idler pulleys replacing PS an A/C. Doing this for ease of belt purchasing in future.

-mounting the coil near battery or in place of and putting battery in trunk. ECM going in the stock Fiero location.

-Exhaust is up in the air, I would like to keep all of my trunk but am not not completely opposed to cutting out the bottom. Not planning on having a catalytic converter. Would love some suggestions.

Some of thing in my list are minor but were floating around in my head at the moment. Please add or correct if needed. Once I finally get going on this thing (if I have time this winter) I more than likely won't be updating this thread, it's more of a quick checklist for me to make sure I didn't forget to buy the motor

If I decide to do a build thread, it would be after the fact. I highly doubt I will since it's been covered plenty of times and there is no need for a newb to add to the list.

EDIT: forgot to ask about fuel pumps, what is recommended? Won't be pushing the 3800 too far past stock.

[This message has been edited by fastblack (edited 11-25-2013).]

For pretty much stock 3800SC swaps I recommend using a replacement pump for the GMC cyclone turbo truck, for exhaust you can get a decent system in there with out cutting the trunk and for mounts and harness you can make your own just take your time. Dan

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DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

phonedawgz is a good guy to get a harness from.\

Oil filter adapter that will work with your set up.

My recommendation is to use the 3800 alternator and AC compressor if used. Also the AR cruise servo if you are using cruise.

No matter what you do for belts once you figure what size fits, buying that same belt size in the future isn't a problem.

You don't want to move the battery backwards. Stock location for the battery works along with the coil packs to be located on the front firewall near the battery.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 11-25-2013).]

FIEROFLYER: Mounts don't worry me too much, have fabbed things out of metal plenty of times, the harness on the other hand I think may be beyond my level of patience. I will take note on the Cyclone fuel pump.

phonedawgz: I was kind of hoping you'd chime in. I'm pretty sure I have you on Facebook as well so I should be able to track you down when the time comes

It will not have A/C and no cruise to begin with. Neither work on the car now and that honestly doesn't bother me. The gas pedal now is "heavy" enough to easily maintain speed and most of my driving is what I call "Fiero Friendly" which means more curves than straights.

As far as exhaust goes, I will get a better idea with the cradle out of the car but I've always had the idea of using shorty style headers and creating a true dual exhaust system. Figured I would try to tuck a muffler in where the cat is now and another where the stock muffler is then routing them out in the stock locations of course. I'm not even sure of the availability of such headers and again not even sure if there is enough room to do it all. As cool as loud cars are, I would prefer the tone to be as civilized as possible also. Again, I'm open to suggestions on exhaust, it's honestly one of the areas of this swap I really haven't searched much on and I'm sure there's plenty out there.

Thanks for the pointers guys!

Sound's like you have absorbed a lot of info over the years, I myself was a little surprised at the total cost of all my little $10 and $20 trips to the hardware store or auto parts store when I was piecing together the coolant lines and, and air intake.

Your using the Fiero trans, so the stock trans mounts work, But you just need to upgrade them to Rodney's Polly mounts, and Fabricate the single motor mount (OR WCF it only like $60)

I used a harness from Phonedawgs and i couldn't have been happier with it. I plan to use his harnesses again for any future Fiero swaps I do.


And maybe someone will chime in, I ran my Alternator in the stock location on my 86 SE (Notchback) I had to notch my deck lid to clear the Alt. I think there is even less room on the Fastbacks, I'm not sure if the stock location will work for you. but i might be wrong, I haven't done a Fastback swap.


Here's My Build

[This message has been edited by 1fast2m4 (edited 11-25-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 1fast2m4: Sound's like you have absorbed a lot of info over the years, I myself was a little surprised at the total cost of all my little $10 and $20 trips to the hardware store or auto parts store when I was piecing together the coolant lines and, and air intake. I used a harness from Phonedawgs and i couldn't have been happier with it. I plan to use his harnesses again for any future Fiero swaps I do. And maybe someone will chime in, I ran my Alternator in the stock location on my 86 SE (Notchback) I had to notch my deck lid to clear the Alt. I think there is even less room on the Fastbacks, I'm not sure if the stock location will work for you. but i might be wrong, I haven't done a Fastback swap.

Yeah, I can foresee plenty of trips to town for "this and that" throughout this whole deal, should probably just start a charge account at the hardware store and Napa now If I recall correctly, the stock location of the alternator will work with a fastback, just more needs to be taken out of the deck lid than needs to be on a notchie. I'm not toooooooo worried about it at this point and maybe between now and then something will change.

Something else that popped in my head was cooling, should I upgrade the radiator or will the stock unit do just fine?

I had a Fear of my 3800 over heating Fiero style so I skipped the T-stat and even on a 100 deg day it took 1/2 hour to get up to 180deg and then the fan would kick on for 30 seconds and it would be back down to 140deg

as long as the radiator is in good shape you'll be fine with a 180deg thermostat

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1986 SE 3800SC/4t65eHD (12.871@104.96) I'll Sell it if you like
1985 GT 3800SC (swap in progress)

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[This message has been edited by fastblack (edited 06-25-2014).]

The powersteering pump will melt without circulating fluid through it.

Oil filter placement is not something that should dictate what swap setup you get.

West coast fiero sucks.

Moving the ICM and coils from the stockish location is way more trouble than its worth. Keeping stock wires/ICM harness is a huge plus of keeping them on the motor or on the firewall near that side of the motor. Moving the battery is almost always a bad idea.

Ebay "pacesetter" style headers are the best option for fiero exhaust setups IMO. "true dual" doesnt help you much and it increases the complexity of building exhaust 200x.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The powersteering pump will melt without circulating fluid through it. Oil filter placement is not something that should dictate what swap setup you get. West coast fiero sucks. Moving the ICM and coils from the stockish location is way more trouble than its worth. Keeping stock wires/ICM harness is a huge plus of keeping them on the motor or on the firewall near that side of the motor. Moving the battery is almost always a bad idea. Ebay "pacesetter" style headers are the best option for fiero exhaust setups IMO. "true dual" doesnt help you much and it increases the complexity of building exhaust 200x.

Very helpful, thank you. I was hoping to find/make a simple bracket with the correct size pulley mounted to it to replace the PS pump and A/C compressor. Did not plan on leaving them in there and just running them "dry". This of course can change, nothing is set in stone as of now.

I'm finding out the same about the oil filter, finding the correct adapter will be much easier.

I've heard a few negative comments about west coast fieros, is their build quality crap, poor customer service, both?? Are there any alternatives for suppliers of the mounts? I believe Rodney has aluminum cradle bushings that I was planning on buying.

After reading a few comments, I'm going to be leaving the battery in the stock location and we'll see how I like the coils in the stock 3800 location. I guess I'll figure out a place for the ECM as I go.

Thanks again!

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The powersteering pump will melt without circulating fluid through it.

Yep

quote Oil filter placement is not something that should dictate what swap setup you get.

Agreed (i used the GTP filter bracket)

quote West coast fiero sucks.

I Agree my mounts came 6 days after promised and there phone rings ALOT

quote Moving the ICM and coils from the stockish location is way more trouble than its worth. Keeping stock wires/ICM harness is a huge plus of keeping them on the motor or on the firewall near that side of the motor. Moving the battery is almost always a bad idea.

My Coils are where the battery was, but I did not have to extend the ICM harness
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1986 SE 3800SC/4t65eHD (12.871@104.96) I'll Sell it if you like
1985 GT 3800SC (swap in progress)

[This message has been edited by 1fast2m4 (edited 11-26-2013).]

My experience with WCF's products is as follows:

Custom Center console w/subwoofer: Does not fit well at all. There was a month or so of delays before it was shipped.
Modified fiero thermostat for 3800sc: What I got back was MUCH worse than what I sent in. There were a few pin-holes that ended up causing me leakage problems and I ended up buying another through the mall which is sadly also in bad shape.
Fuel line kit (3800sc) - decent experience

The worst part about WCF for me has been calling them. It either rings forever or you get to talk to someone who's grumpy and makes you feel like you're an inch tall. This was a few years ago and I hope things have changed but the only reason I would buy from them now is if they offered something that no one else did.

My only advice is to be patient with the mounting of the engine/transmission on the cradle and that Phonedawgz builds an excellent harness. I built my own but ended up going with Phonedawgz harness for some added peace of mind.