I am gathering items for my v8 Swap, I am pretty much set besides the car it will go into. I am looking for a manual car, not running condition, clean body minimal rust.

I've found 2 cars so far.

1st- 87 notchie with a spun rod Cradle already dropped out. Has some body damage but otherwise mint. Hes good with the offer of $450 delivered.

I then found a

86 GT with a blown motor, good body, not sure on rust that is again cradle pre-dropped. Guys asking 800 I offered him 400 cash. He will no longer take my messages.

I'm assuming I've made him upset but I felt it was a fare offer for a car that is in pieces is mostly desired for its body by most, scrap by the rest.

What would you value a manual car with bad engine, already dropped out.

well, could he make more than 400 parting it out? you know that answer..
cutting the price in half and working from there might work on gas monkey garage but not in real life..
most with a nitch vehicle have an idea what the car and/or parts are worth..
you can always wait it out.. and then call back if he still has it.. if it's clean and rot free. he knows it's worth..

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: well, could he make more than 400 parting it out? you know that answer.. cutting the price in half and working from there might work on gas monkey garage but not in real life.. most with a nitch vehicle have an idea what the car and/or parts are worth.. you can always wait it out.. and then call back if he still has it.. if it's clean and rot free. he knows it's worth..

I believe I have a pretty good idea, of what these cars are worth. I've seen perfectly running cars not sell for 1300. I don't see how you could spend 800 on one that doesn't even have an engine in it. Which gives you no guarantee on the tranny.


I was hoping to nab it to save myself the headache of possibly wanting a Fastback in the future. Do I need the fastback, no I have a full fastback parts car but I was being greedy hoping not having to swap panels.

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: I believe I have a pretty good idea, of what these cars are worth. I've seen perfectly running cars not sell for 1300. I don't see how you could spend 800 on one that doesn't even have an engine in it. Which gives you no guarantee on the tranny. I was hoping to nab it to save myself the headache of possibly wanting a Fastback in the future. Do I need the fastback, no I have a full fastback parts car but I was being greedy hoping not having to swap panels.

good luck, I found one here a notch, with a known bad trans.. wants 600 and won't deal I tried the I'll give you 400.oo figuring they only scrap at 2300-2500lbs so under 200.00 that I'd get it, nope, he didn't even reply, just hung up on me..

Depends how good the body is. Also might depend on whether you went and looked at it in person. Alot of people dont like sight unseen low offers that are half their starting price.
...Or he sold it to someone else.

Keep looking for an 88.

Any fastback with a straight frame and undamaged body is worth at least $800. I'm sure the seller knows that, and he could probably get more than that for it if he really wanted to.

Offering half of a reasonable asking price is going to get you ignored, yes. Your offer was too low. And frankly, you shouldn't be making an offer on a vehicle you haven't even looked at yet; especially one that's 50% of the asking price. If you can't take the time to go inspect the car to see if it's worth the $800 asking price, then you shouldn't waste the owner's time with bad offers.

quote Originally posted by dobey: Any fastback with a straight frame and undamaged body is worth at least $800. I'm sure the seller knows that, and he could probably get more than that for it if he really wanted to. Offering half of a reasonable asking price is going to get you ignored, yes. Your offer was too low. And frankly, you shouldn't be making an offer on a vehicle you haven't even looked at yet; especially one that's 50% of the asking price. If you can't take the time to go inspect the car to see if it's worth the $800 asking price, then you shouldn't waste the owner's time with bad offers.

Agreed. I hate posting something on CraigsList and I get low-ball offers without them even coming out. I'm sure they just want to deal, but at that point I'm offended.

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'87 GT 5-speed

quote Originally posted by CodeSlinger: Agreed. I hate posting something on CraigsList and I get low-ball offers without them even coming out. I'm sure they just want to deal, but at that point I'm offended.

I had a 69 Firebird Convertible for many years. A co-worker of mine found out I was thinking of selling it and asked me what I was looking to get for it. I told him that I was thinking $15k but would possibly go down to $10K cash (in his case only). He offered me $5K plus trade out for yard work. My answer was no...and I ended keeping the car for another year. That being said, he kept bugging me every few months with this same ridiculous offer...I kept saying no. He finally gave up. When I finally decided it was time to sell....I posted it on CL for $15k...sold in within 3 days for $13K...cash... in real currency ....as in 130 one hundred dollar bills. I don't really get the lowball thing ....I mean would you walk up to a stranger (or co-worker) and just ask them for $5000 ?? Or $500 ??...hell even $50? Why ask for this much off, then. It is different if the person is way out of line in what they are asking. But if I'm trying to buy something in that scenario ...I just point out the comparables when I make the offer ...if the person gets upset then ....so be it. But just low-balling to low-ball is annoying and basically telling the other guy you think he is stupid.

I know im not willing to budge more than 400- 450 so why waste both our time by going out and looking. I talked to the guy it wasn't oh ill give you 400 for it. I stated as long as frames good and bodys decent 400 is what i'd do. A simple no I believe its worth more is fine.

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: I know im not willing to budge more than 400- 450 so why waste both our time by going out and looking. I talked to the guy it wasn't oh ill give you 400 for it. I stated as long as frames good and bodys decent 400 is what i'd do. A simple no I believe its worth more is fine.

Talking and looking are very different. If you aren't willing to go look at it, and you're not willing to spend more than ~450 for a car, then that's fine. But you asked if you were way off with your offer, and the answer is yes, your offer was way too low.

If you want to spend $400 on a car you aren't willing to take the time to look over, then you deserve whatever it is you get out of it, however bad the car is. Maybe if you were buying it for a parts car it wouldn't matter as much, but if you're buying it for a car you intend to drive, you should take the time to go look at what you're making an offer on. If you think it's a waste of time now, just wait until you get it, and some of the less visible areas are damaged.

By the time you have a V-8 swap running on the road the difference of what he wants and what you want to pay will be so small compared to the overall price tag that you will never even think about it. You will end up money ahead by buying the nicest car you can find and going from there. Larry

I have two very clean cars. One is an 85SE 23K miles. It is stripped down to frame, suspension, and little else. The other one is my daily driver 86 GT. The GT is up on jack stands getting an engine swap right now that will hopefully be done this weekend. Both cars can be seen in my sig link below for the L67.

The 85 was purchased as a parts car but mostly complete. I paid $250 plus the tow bill for it. I got that price because it wasn't running, the title was lost, it belonged to a co-worker's dad and he was sick of looking at it and mostly just wanted it gone. When I made up my mind to build that car back into a driver, I had to figure out what to do about a title. Replacing a title is about $300. Luckily for me, I talked to the wife of the PO and she knew where the title was!

The point is, if the frame is in great shape and it has a title, the title alone is worth $300 to you. At that point can you value the frame as scrap metal? I don't think so. Scrap metal isn't something you need or can use as is. A nice frame, in addition to its value as metal, has value as a usable member of a car that you desire to own. I have often thought of selling all my parts cars including the 85 but I don't know if I can get what I think is a fair price for them. I can already tell you that $400 would not buy my 85 even as it sits right now. That is mostly because I don't HAVE to sell it. Someone would need to come along who wanted it more than I do before it leaves here.

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Jonathan

'68-69 GTO Nose - The Project has Begun!
My '85 L67 Build Thread

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 10-11-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: 1st- 87 notchie with a spun rod Cradle already dropped out. Has some body damage but otherwise mint. Hes good with the offer of $450 delivered. 86 GT with a blown motor, good body, not sure on rust that is again cradle pre-dropped. Guys asking 800 I offered him 400 cash. He will no longer take my messages.

You don't say what the guy was asking for the 87 notchie. Was he asking $900 and accepted $450 or was he asking $550 and accepted $450? Do you see the difference?

The guy with the 86 GT was asking $800 and you offered him HALF of what he was asking. People build in room for negotiation, but it is usually more like 10%-15%.

Recently I listed an 85 GT 4 speed (running) for $950 and I took $700 plus a windshield for it. I got sick of people calling asking "what's your bottom dollar" and "I have $500 cash RIGHT NOW." Whoop-dee-doo. I wasn't in a hurry to sell and I usually don't even entertain those low-ball calls or emails. Sometimes if they are especially rude and don't understand "No, I don't have to sell and $XXX is my bottom price", then I let them come over and don't sell them the car. I also do this if they are condescending on the phone and proceed to tell ME what I don't know about Fiero's. That way they get here and find 3-5 cars with stock and swaps. They usually go off packing too.

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: I'm assuming I've made him upset but I felt it was a fare offer for a car that is in pieces is mostly desired for its body by most, scrap by the rest.

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: I know im not willing to budge more than 400- 450 so why waste both our time by going out and looking. I talked to the guy it wasn't oh ill give you 400 for it. I stated as long as frames good and bodys decent 400 is what i'd do. A simple no I believe its worth more is fine.

So it you just want the body and are going to scrap the rest, you should have offered him more. You are going to recoup $200+ for scrapping the chassis/motor/trans, so $600-$650 might have kept him taking. We all know that if the body/tail lights are good, those tail lights alone could go for $200-$250.

I just parted an 86GT over the summer that I had listed for $800 with no title. My bottom dollar was $700. Lots of low-balls so I parted it out and scrapped it for a total of $982. That was with me keeping the wheels with new tires, new dew wipes, sail panels, wire harness and some roller rockers... Sad thing is that I got the car running and driving, but the motor went to scrap...

All that said, yes you got greedy and offered a low-ball price in my opinion. However, if you wait long enough there will be one that comes along for $500 that you can offer your $400-$450 and you will get it. I am just saying that I think you low-balled on the 86 GT. I really don't care about notchies and think the value is lower...

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-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

I would not be scrapping the car, and just to add most of the value of the car is gone, the interior is bad according to him, and from the pictures taillights are cracked. I am interested in the car for straight frame and undamaged body. The notchie guy was asking 1000 for it. But it had been up for months. Fieros don't seem to move here like they do elsewhere.

I think a $400 offer on a $800 listing could be construed as low ball and I had many similar offers on my '84 Notchie with 3800SC/4T65e HD conversion. I nicely answered them and told them that I am not desperate to sell and that I would consider an offer within 10% of my asking price which was $2500 at the time. I heard nothing from them. I lowered the price to $2000 and had more offers including one I should have taken but didn't take. The guy was bargaining blind and hadn't seen the car so I wasn't sure he was legit. The car is still for sale!

My point is that I agree that offering half is to some people an insult but to me, it is possibly an indicator that they want to bargain. I lived in Europe for a number of years and in Asia as well where bargaining is a way of life otherwise, you get screwed if you pay first price. Having said that, I can't apply the same standards here in the US that I used in the Sachenhousen floh markt in Frankfurt so a little realism should apply, In the OP's case, I think the seller wanted something like $650-$700 for the car and that is what I would have offered if I really wanted the car.

If someone wants to keep the ball rolling and they have something for sale for $800, and they get an offer of $400, their response should either be for example:
"$750"..and wait for your counter offer which should be higher than the $400 you originally said, significantly higher. If they said "$550" and not 750, then you would know they were for sure ready to bargain with people, or had wiggle room.

or they shoudl respond with:
"I am firm on price."

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-11-2013).]

You can find running ones around for less than $1000. Anything not running isnt worth 1/2 that unless otherwise its in mint perfect condition. Id never give over $400-500 for a non running car. Your offer was fair. The rule is if your a seller your car is worth a LOT, if your a buyer its not worth crap.....you have to work from there.

I had the reverse problem....wanted to see an 86GT locally back in July. He was asking $2000. Given the rims and everything else that it had (without inspecting it) I was happy to pay that. He told me that he wasn't available to show it to me that night so I should call back the next day. I called back the next day, and again he couldn't show it that night. So....I called back the next night, and even mentioned that I'd was really interested and would pay cash on the spot for it as long as it was solid. He replied, "wow, you must really be interested. Tell you what, I'll give it to you for $1000"...but of course he wasn't available that night to show it to me... He never answered the phone again. Ok. I'm ready to hand him $2000...he's ready to drop the price to $1000...and he never answers the phone again...

I gave up and picked up the 88 I have now for $900. Cost me $200 to get running, e-tested and safety inspected.

Just checked...the 86GT is still for sale online...now he's asking $1000. Hope he's not a saleman for a living!!!

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: You can find running ones around for less than $1000. Anything not running isnt worth 1/2 that unless otherwise its in mint perfect condition. Id never give over $400-500 for a non running car. Your offer was fair. The rule is if your a seller your car is worth a LOT, if your a buyer its not worth crap.....you have to work from there.

Thank you, i've seen numerous post saying this same thing before and I agree, yet now suddenly everyone would spend tons more on a car that doesn't even have an engine. And The whole barganing thing is I expected him to reply offer with 650-700 but instead I get nothing. I consider anything less than half low ball. but considering his beinging price was "sky high" I figured i'd get a negative response if any.

People are funny. Especially sellers (if you're a buyer.)
At one point I was looking for an S10. Called about one that was in the Auto Trader. I asked the lady why she was selling it (a common question) and she went of on me. Jeez lady... get a grip.

I think the botom line is that you insulted him without looking at it. You may not view it that way but he did, and I think that was predictable. Lowballing someone sight unseen is bad manners for sure. Larry

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: I consider anything less than half low ball. but considering his beinging price was "sky high" I figured i'd get a negative response if any.

LOL. $800 is "sky high" now? And people wonder why Fiero owners are called cheapskates.

Anything less than 10% under asking price is low ball, unless there is significant reason to make such an offer. If he was asking for $2000 for the same car without the engine, and you offered $800, then it would be a reasonable offer. But he's asking $800 for an entire car, minus the engine (which you're going to junk and replace anyway, and if it was in decent condition could be sold by itself for your offer price), and it's a GT to boot.

If $800 for a car is too rich for your blood, then maybe you should re-consider doing a V8 swap.

There are less and less Fieros every year. The prices will go up.

Sorry but most people consider a Fiero a 25 year old worn out errand car...mostly for students needing cheap trans. Granted theres a lot of nice ones out there, especially if theyre nice and modified. They can be worth a lot. It will be another 25 years before a good stock Fiero is worth anything to talk about. Barret Jackson sold one last year and it wasnt. I had an 86 GT V8 conversion. Had a brand new SMC with all new accessories, new brakes, tires, wheels, custom paint, interior. I felt lucky to get $5000 (in trade) at a classic car sale. I had over $15,000 in it. So if a brand new one only gets $5000, whats yours worth ?

quote Originally posted by dobey: LOL. $800 is "sky high" now? And people wonder why Fiero owners are called cheapskates. Anything less than 10% under asking price is low ball, unless there is significant reason to make such an offer. If he was asking for $2000 for the same car without the engine, and you offered $800, then it would be a reasonable offer. But he's asking $800 for an entire car, minus the engine (which you're going to junk and replace anyway, and if it was in decent condition could be sold by itself for your offer price), and it's a GT to boot. If $800 for a car is too rich for your blood, then maybe you should re-consider doing a V8 swap. There are less and less Fieros every year. The prices will go up.

I think your willing to pay way more than what its worth, Think it this way, I can pick up a decent running gt for 1000. $200 less and I'm left with half a car basically.

quote Originally posted by Phirewire: I think your willing to pay way more than what its worth, Think it this way, I can pick up a decent running gt for 1000. $200 less and I'm left with half a car basically.

Running? perhaps. Decent? I doubt it. A decent running GT will be at least 2000, most often around 2500-3000. A really good one will be more than that.

"Fair exchange is not robbery"

It's a simple transaction, they are selling for a price and you are buying for a price, make the offer you are willing to pay and leave it at that . . . I'm not buying the seller's friendship (if not buying from a friend) why worry if it hurt their feelings? Insult them? Are they coming to eat a meal with you? It's a transaction get over it if someone offers half price, tell'em no thanks.

They either say yes or no and you move on or you negotiate on a fair price (see quote above)

Feelings have no business in a transaction when money is involved in my opinion.

I agree with the comments about offering 1/2 price without looking at something in person, I would laugh at you on the phone, tell you you didn't even look at it yet and have a nice day! Making any offer without looking first is just not right. Sure would not insult me, it's the buyers problem not mine that they tried to lowball me . . . and yes I've sold things for 1/2 my asking price just not Fieros, I've never sold one of mine that I bought

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"There is no more formidable adversary than one who perceives he has nothing to lose." - Gen. George S. Patton
http://www.flowbenchtech.com