Hi All, Looking to clean up some items over the winter break and will need to drop my duke. I have read about the multiple ways or lifting (both good and bad), and was considering this idea as an option.
I would like to use the strut towers as the lifting point. (i.e. remove upper strut bolts, swing the tops of the struts out of the way and use some plates with a threaded I bolt or hook to secure to a hoist.
The cradle would not be attached when lifting so the wieght would be reduced sans engine and tranny, and aftwards proper placement of jack stands would be used for the longterm.
Has anyone else used this method or a variation of it? Is the sheet metal used around the strut towers stout enough to handle this?
Thanks all!
------------------ 1984 Base Coupe Red Stock MY8 1984 SE Black Stock
The sheet metal should be fine as long as the load is not concentrated on a small area. As an alternative, I pull the trunk carpet away from the front wall, and thread a chain through the holes, from one side to the other. I have lifted the entire rear of my car, including the engine and cradle, using a chain hoist, using this method.
it would probably work , the strut towers take a lot of weight .but peeling back the trunk carpet there is a formed beam with holes you can slide chains through and pick up from there .that is the way most of us do it i think .
The sheet metal should be fine as long as the load is not concentrated on a small area. As an alternative, I pull the trunk carpet away from the front wall, and thread a chain through the holes, from one side to the other. I have lifted the entire rear of my car, including the engine and cradle, using a chain hoist, using this method.
I have pulled fiero engines probably 10 times in the last 20 years. I am gonna try this next time!
Thanks,
------------------ 84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.906 at 111.93mph
Thanks all! Quick question.. when using the space behind the trunk carpet, is there any distortion of the metal? Not that I am a perfectionist, but I like things to look new
Yea, this is sorta the method I used "peeling back the trunk carpet there is a formed beam with holes", except I used 2 small J-Hooks (total of 4 J-Hooks and 2 lock nuts & bolts, as a safety prevenitive measure,be sure to use the lock nuts), 2 small J-Hooks on the right and 2 on the left (on about a 4 foot length of chain) , 2 hooks side by side, hooked into each hole,on the right and left side, (I baught them at Harbor Freight Tool or search on line).
I have an engine hoist bar that I made out of a class II hitch with 1 ton hooks on each end. Those hooks just hook into the holes in the trunk front wall and up it goes.
Personally, I'd rather lift the car via the strut towers than the trunk wall. The strut towers were designed to handle loads from the suspension, which means they can handle a lot of force. As long as you don't concentrate all the weight into a small spot, you should be fine. You don't need to make special plates, either. Some scrap wood and a couple pieces of chain will probably do the trick.
I've lifted by the inner bolt on the top of the strut towers dozens of times with no issues. I have a chain made up just for that task, using bolts with large washers under the surface of the tower.
I have used the trunk wall method but it caused distortion of the metal.
Strut tower can handle load, Especially when you spread load to wide area. The towers use heavier sheet than many areas.
Depending on the hook(s)... can tear-out most sheet metal w/ little effort. Is why trunk wall method could be a bad idea.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by olejoedad: I've lifted by the inner bolt on the top of the strut towers dozens of times with no issues.
Used this method all the time, before I started leaving the struts with the chassis. Now I use the trunk wall beam almost exclusively.
The only noticable difference is the travel arc of the body being lifted. When using the trunk wall beam, the ram is shorter, so for the same elevation it pulls to the rear more (or pushes the engine into the double firewall section more) than the longer ram used for the strut tower method.
Depends on what you are using to lift it with. A chain fall or comalong would be good if you have a high beam to lift to, a cherry picker may cause you problems because the struts are so far forward you will have to have the arm very high to clear the back of the car when you have it lifted high enough to get the engine out. I have a beam at about 8 foot, so I put a hole in the bottom of the trunk and a 2 by 6 under the floor, a lifting eye through that. It gives the comealong a place to go when it is lifted. Larry
I did a lot of research on this to find the best way to lift safely. Lots of ideas...good and bad. As Trotterlg said, it really depends on what you are using to lift with. If you have a lifting point above the car then the strut method could well be the easiest method...just make sure you distribute the load on the lifting points. If you are using a cherry picker, then you'll want to take the extra time to remove the rear bumper molding and wrap a strap or chain around the bumper supports to lift. The main thing when using the cherry picker is to ensure that the wheels on the cherry picker can move freely. If your engine/cradle is sitting on a trolley and the cherry picker butts up against it, then you could put yourself in a position where the lifting point is not directly below the cherry picker (a condition which gets worse as the car is lifted)...this can result in the cherry picker flipping forward and the car coming crashing down. The trunk holes look like an easy solution, but they are not designed for this type of loading, they are definitely not strong enough and MAY tear. What ever you do...don't ever use the trunk latch! Many people swear by this method, but there's a pic floating around somewhere of one imbedded in a wall after it broke off...ouch! ...again...another spot not designed to take these loads.
This works... FIEROFLYER made this bar up that evenly distributes the weight across the two strut towers. I'm going to make something similar myself for that day I keep telling myself is coming when I pull a Fiero engine out by myself.
I tried the trunk latch and it started to bend immediately.
I tried the holes in the trunk and the sheet metal started to bend. We were in the process of getting a gem back on the road so I didn't want any undo bending.
I pulled the rear fascia and wrapped a recovery strap around the rear cross members where they attach to the rear impact bar/bumper. Safest easiest way for ME to do it. The cradle dolly had plenty of room. The hoist had plenty of room. The car was very stable and there was no bending metal or latches.
I thank everyone for your replies!!! I have an A frame with an I beam top that I will be using to lift the car. I have used it to lift another fiero, and in that case I had the rear bumper off so I used the strap method as mentioned here a few times. It is plenty solid and managed to lift the entire rear car with engine and tranny with out so much as a squeak.
I would really like to keep the bumper on in this case and I think a jig similar to Fiero Flyers maybe in order.. or a variation of it
Whatever method you and anyone else reading this uses, just make sure you have supplementary support (ie jack stands) before you get under the car for any reason.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-07-2013).]
If using a cherry picker... watch length on lift arm. Longer arm means less load arm can lift and can mean less stable lifting high. Many are label such but some don't have them or label has worn off. Example from enginehoist.net
Crane's load rate is Max load and means shortest arm. HF and others 1 ton crane is only rated 500Lb when arm is at max length. Too low for safe lifting a Fiero rear w/o cradle etc.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick: Whatever method you and anyone else reading this uses, just make sure you have supplementary support (ie jack stands) before you get under the car for any reason.
Yes! Never get under anything w/o jack stands etc. See my Cave, Safe Jacking
Originally posted by lurtz: .... have an A frame with an I beam top that I will be using to lift the car. ... It is plenty solid and managed to lift the entire rear car with engine and tranny with out so much as a squeak. ....
Like this? This is with the chain double-looped through the trunk compartment bar. I didn't use hooks. The front wheels (on ramps) are blocked so they won't roll. The A frame has wheels so that it can.
Yes Raydar, very similar to my A frame... only no wheels... hmmm. maybe that should be another modification And yes I will be supporting the vehicle with jackstands once it is raised up. (Wouldn't want to risk damaging the fiero
Originally posted by Raydar: ...The front wheels (on ramps) are blocked so they won't roll. The A frame has wheels so that it can.
The wheels are a great addition to an A Frame, haven't seen that often. Nice setup! I see a lot of people using A Frames outside on dirt or gravel driveways. Usually wheels don't work as well, since they just dig into the dirt. Wheels make the setup much safer, but really benefit from the concrete floor. If the A Frame is stationary, then best not to block the front wheels of the car to allow the necessary small amount of relative motion that will occur.
I can't take credit for the critical thinking. I just wanted to be able to move the thing around, in the limited space that I have. The fact that it can move when I'm raising the car was a pleasant side effect.
I'd really hate for it to drag the car down the ramps.
I'd really hate for it to drag the car down the ramps.
That happened to me once. I lifted the front first and put my ramps under the tires. Then I was using a floor jack to lift the rear to put jack stands under. There was some oil-dry pebbles under the car and they prevented my jack from rolling as it lifted. It pulled my car off the ramps. Luckily, the ramps shot forward and the car came rearward much less than was possible. It could have been much worse, my garage door was down and the car could have pinned me against it. I got lucky. Sweep the floor before lifting!
The trunk holes look like an easy solution, but they are not designed for this type of loading, they are definitely not strong enough and MAY tear. What ever you do...don't ever use the trunk latch! Many people swear by this method, but there's a pic floating around somewhere of one imbedded in a wall after it broke off...ouch! 
...again...another spot not designed to take these loads.
.JPG)
