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clutch master cylinder by redwhite04
Started on: 10-01-2013 12:37 PM
Replies: 20 (596 views)
Last post by: redwhite04 on 10-03-2013 10:19 AM
redwhite04
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Report this Post10-01-2013 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok.. I'm trying to get my car going. I installed New(clutch slave, clutch master cylinder: all from thefierostore) along with a new clutch/flywheel/T.O. Bearing. I used a vac bleeder to bleed the line( which is also brand new, NO BUBBLES AT ALL) I'm only getting about 3/4 of and Inch travel out the clutch slave pin. The clutch pedal bottoms out on the pedal assembly limit( its not hitting the floor. this is in an 86GT 4 speed with a 3800. Its not releasing the clutch with the pedal pressed. the pedal feels like it should( or how my Camaro feels) is it possible the new clutch master is bad? I've check the mounting pin on the clutch pedal and its fine also I know I'm not "bottoming out" the C master cylinder. however the slave is not fully seating out to the snapring under full pedal. Help... I wanna get this project running and its blowing my mind..
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DaytonTD
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Report this Post10-01-2013 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaytonTDClick Here to Email DaytonTDSend a Private Message to DaytonTDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check your pedal is not bent and make sure you put the banjo on the clutch master the right side up, I can't remember which side the loop goes off the top of my head.
I personally always had trouble with the Fierostore's master and slaves up until I bought Rodney's double piston seal ones. Now no problems at all. However the Fierostore's do usually work initially when they are brand new, takes up to a year for them to be junk for me. Another thing to check is if your bracket on your transmission is cracked, never had this happen but it may affect travel.
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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-01-2013 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the pedal bend issue would cause the pedal to bottom on the floor before it bottoms on the actual pedal assembly correct? the slave bracket is brand new... banjo is fine
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DaytonTD
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Report this Post10-01-2013 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DaytonTDClick Here to Email DaytonTDSend a Private Message to DaytonTDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes if it is bent it will bottom out on the floor. Did you change the arm on the clutch fork that the slave rod pushes against? It could be possible that it is not pushing it enough. Other than that it should still release with 3/4 push. Maybe the TOB is in incorrectly or the clutch is the wrong one. Sorry I'm just starting to through out general ideas now I can't think of anything else.
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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-01-2013 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well the clutch pedal is not bottoming out on the floor. I got the T.O. bearing installed correctly that I'm sure of. I bought the Clutch from Summit... been buying from them for years.. never had a problem. I read that the slave should bottom on the snap ring and that the slave rod should move a minimum of 1 inch. Well if I'm only getting 3/4.... I can plausibly see that the 1/4 inch I'm not getting would/could be the needed amount to disengage the clutch.
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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-01-2013 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
am I suppose to be able to take the clutch slave out with out removing the slave itself? I can push the slave rod all the way in and pull the nose out of the lever. I would think you wouldn't want any serious preload on that.. so to me this seems correct. with the rod pushed all the way in.. I have a few ( maybe a millimeter or two) of clearance to pull the slave shaft out.
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fierofool
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Report this Post10-01-2013 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 4-speed uses this slave cylinder.

You should have a 5 3/4 5 1/2 inch pushrod. The piston should not bottom out in either the clutch in or clutch out position. There is a small spring inside the slave that keeps tension on the piston. Its purpose is to keep the piston against the pushrod, capturing it against the clutch lever.

What do you mean by taking the clutch slave out without removing the slave itself?

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 10-02-2013).]

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Report this Post10-01-2013 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for northstarClick Here to Email northstarSend a Private Message to northstarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Easy fix .put a longer clutch rod in..this works most of the time..even a longer bolt
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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-01-2013 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The slave shaft(rod).... with the longer rod i would have to unbolt the slave to instal it.... just seem you shouldnt have to do that.... plus id be leary of possible preload on the T.O. bearing and essentially the clutch
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Report this Post10-01-2013 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

redwhite04

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Ive read the length should be anywhere from 5.5 to 6 inches... mine is 5 9/16
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fierofool
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Report this Post10-01-2013 10:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by redwhite04:

The slave shaft(rod).... with the longer rod i would have to unbolt the slave to instal it.... just seem you shouldnt have to do that.... plus id be leary of possible preload on the T.O. bearing and essentially the clutch


If you have the slave I pictured and are using a short 3 1/2 inch Getrag pushrod, that's the reason your pedal bottoms out part way down. The slave piston is hitting the end of the slave. You can't put preload on the throwout bearing, other than the very light amount offered by the spring inside the slave. It's soft enough that you can compress it between your thumb and finger. Hydraulic systems in themselves do not offer any preload. A spring is necessary somewhere in the system.

And I was incorrect on the length of the Isuzu/Muncie 4-speed pushrod for the slave pictured above. It isn't 5 3/4, but 5 1/2. I just went out into the garage and measured both the Getrag and the Muncie slave pushrods.
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Report this Post10-02-2013 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by redwhite04:

The clutch pedal bottoms out on the pedal assembly limit( its not hitting the floor. ..


Have someone push in the clutch until the pedal stops and hold it there. Open the bleeder on the slave. If the pedal drops the slave is hitting the end of the piston travel. If it does not drop the master is hitting the limit of it's travel.

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Patrick
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Report this Post10-02-2013 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

Have someone push in the clutch until the pedal stops and hold it there. Open the bleeder on the slave. If the pedal drops the slave is hitting the end of the piston travel. If it does not drop the master is hitting the limit of it's travel.


Might be easier to just simply disconnect the banjo from the clutch pedal and then see if the pedal goes any farther towards the floor.

In my experience, any Fiero clutch pedal (bent or otherwise) will hit the floor.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-02-2013).]

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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-02-2013 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With the banjo disconnected the pedal does not hit the floor before hitting the clutch assembly limit.. I am using the correct slave with a 5.5 slave rod
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-02-2013 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by redwhite04:

With the banjo disconnected the pedal does not hit the floor before hitting the clutch assembly limit.


What is actually stopping your pedal from hitting the floor?

I can't remember offhand how it works without looking at mine, but any chance it's just an adjustment of the plastic clutch "safety switch" (or whatever it's called) that's preventing your clutch pedal from moving further?
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Report this Post10-02-2013 05:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've looked underneath mine and I can find nothing that would keep a normal pedal from touching or almost touching the floor. With the pushrod disconnected, the only other item attached is the neutral safety switch, and that should slip if the pedal is depressed.

Kind of glad you're having this problem. While looking, I found that I have a master cylinder leaking. Wonder if Rodney's gone to bed, yet?
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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-02-2013 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

What is actually stopping your pedal from hitting the floor?

I can't remember offhand how it works without looking at mine, but any chance it's just an adjustment of the plastic clutch "safety switch" (or whatever it's called) that's preventing your clutch pedal from moving further?


No, the safety switch is not the problem.

[QUOTE]I've looked underneath mine and I can find nothing that would keep a normal pedal from touching or almost touching the floor. With the pushrod disconnected, the only other item attached is the neutral safety switch, and that should slip if the pedal is depressed.

Kind of glad you're having this problem. While looking, I found that I have a master cylinder leaking. Wonder if Rodney's gone to bed, yet?[QUOTE]

There are 3 bolts the hold the clutch assembly( one bolt that goes through the pivot eye of all the pedals and the other 2 hold the clutch master cylinder bracket/safety switch bracket. the bolt closest to the firewall(its bracket is the stop... ) run your had up the clutch arm there is a notch.. its there

[This message has been edited by redwhite04 (edited 10-02-2013).]

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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-02-2013 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well.. I put alittle bend in the clutch pedal to advance the master cylinder alittle..(its still not bottoming so no worries) put a new clutch master cylinder the bladder was loose and it sounded as it it were sucking air. So with the new C.M.C on and it bled... I get between 1 and 1.25 inches of travel out of the slave rod.. (not bottomed out either) still the clutch will not release. I locked the rear wheels in place, put it in gear and bar over the engine with the clutch depressed.. thinking it maybe hung up. still nothing. 30 mins later the cradle is out the motor and trans are split.... I unbolt the clutch... Low and behold the pressure plate will not come off.. it is stuck right to the fly wheel... So I gently pick at it for a few minutes and get it free insure not to tear or bend anything. Everything was brand new....clutch, flywheel, T.O. Bearing... I was baffled.. I had never seen or hear of that.... I could see if it were a car I pulled of the soggy junk yard but all this was new. So hopefully when I put this thing back together this weekend it works.. I wanna hear this bad boy purr (I've never driven it or even started it)
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Report this Post10-03-2013 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by redwhite04:

...30 mins later the cradle is out the motor and trans are split


And you're asking us questions?

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fierofool
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Report this Post10-03-2013 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Only time I've ever seen a disk or pressure plate stick to the flywheel is when it's been siting for a very long time. While you're in there, be sure the clutch disk and throwout bearing are turned the correct way. Operate the clutch release arm to be sure it travels smoothly.
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redwhite04
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Report this Post10-03-2013 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for redwhite04Send a Private Message to redwhite04Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Only time I've ever seen a disk or pressure plate stick to the flywheel is when it's been siting for a very long time. While you're in there, be sure the clutch disk and throwout bearing are turned the correct way. Operate the clutch release arm to be sure it travels smoothly.


Everything is good and smooth on the clutch arm
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