Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  3800/auto AXLE

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
3800/auto AXLE by Lou6t4gto
Started on: 09-04-2013 01:38 PM
Replies: 26 (827 views)
Last post by: MstangsBware on 09-06-2013 02:24 PM
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been trying to "Make" a passenger side Axle for my 3800SC w/ HD automatic. I went and bought a NEW Fiero "Stick" Driver side axle, But I Cannot FIND a "GTP " CUP, anywhere. I've already READ the "how to make" articles, seems like I'd need about 5 different axles to actually Make 1. Doesn't anyone sell these things "Redi-made" ? I need 1 for the passenger side of a HD trans. Thanks
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used the inner cup that came with the 4t65e hd transmission.
IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The cup that came with the HD trans , takes a MUCH Larger tripot, I can't find an axle that will fit both the Large tripot (that fits the CUP) And the cv joint(from the Fiero manual Trans.) I've been "Told" that a GTP cup will fit the stock Fiero Man Trans Tripot. Is this True? I really don't want to go BUY 5 different axle combo's trying to Find a workable Combo, It gets expensive. the stock Fiero Man trans Axle/tripot is the correct length, just the tripot is too small for the cup.
IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

8436 posts
Member since May 2008
tweeder, are you thinking Drivers side ?
IP: Logged
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

tweeder, are you thinking Drivers side ?


Nope I just built my axles not that long ago. I used a drivers manual and it fit in the cup that came with my tranny. The fiero axle ans bearing thingy fit perfactly. But my motor and tranny came from a 2002 regal, not sure if that makes a difference or not.

------------------
86 SE Convertible 3800sc 4t65e HD.

IP: Logged
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Tweeder

1025 posts
Member since Aug 2012
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeder:


Nope I just built my axles not that long ago. I used a drivers manual and it fit in the cup that came with my tranny. The fiero axle ans bearing thingy fit perfactly. But my motor and tranny came from a 2002 regal, not sure if that makes a difference or not. That and the drivers axle was from a 88.



IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
that I think is the difference, the regal Trans. Was it a regular regal or a GS ? can anyone verify this ?
IP: Logged
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 05:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

that I think is the difference, the regal Trans. Was it a regular regal or a GS ? can anyone verify this ?


That I don't know, I think a gs? One would think that all "4t65e hd's would be the same cost wise. The only thing I noticed doing my axles is that the auto and standard fiero axles are different diameters but they both fit my tripots. Mabey see if you can locate a junked regal at the wreckers. Over the winter I want to locate another drivers manual and replace my drivers side so it's larger.

------------------
86 SE Convertible 3800sc 4t65e HD.

[This message has been edited by Tweeder (edited 09-04-2013).]

IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 05:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I "Suspect" only the SC models got the HD Trans. I May HAVE To buy a Entire New Axle just to get the CUP ! This Swap is getting old real fast. The entire Engine is new, new AC comp, trans rebuilt, All mounted in the Cradle, all that is left is exhaust, 1 axle, and to finish the harness. I hope I can finish it without throwing in the towel.
IP: Logged
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

I "Suspect" only the SC models got the HD Trans. I May HAVE To buy a Entire New Axle just to get the CUP ! This Swap is getting old real fast. The entire Engine is new, new AC comp, trans rebuilt, All mounted in the Cradle, all that is left is exhaust, 1 axle, and to finish the harness. I hope I can finish it without throwing in the towel.


Like I said, see if the wreckers has one cheap then buy a new boot and put it together.

------------------
86 SE Convertible 3800sc 4t65e HD.

IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've tried all the yards (7), no one has a GS or a GTP. I put an ad in the mall, nothing yet.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

I've tried all the yards (7), no one has a GS or a GTP. I put an ad in the mall, nothing yet.


You might have to try out of towns wreckers.

------------------
86 SE Convertible 3800sc 4t65e HD.

IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most of the yards say they don't "Bother" with axles. figure a brand new one is $70, and all I want is a CUP, then shipping... I'll give it another try on Find a part on the internet.
IP: Logged
katatak
Member
Posts: 7136
From: Omaha, NE USA
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (8)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 82
Rate this member

Report this Post09-04-2013 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for katatakSend a Private Message to katatakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes - you need the tripot cup for a GTP - or Regal GS - there are 2 different Tripot cups - the larger ones are from Bonny's, etc. I believe that certain Transport Vans and Silhouette vans that had 4T65eHD trans also have the correct tripot? Send a PM to Mstangsbwre - he sometimes has axles built up or has parts that he's wiling to let go. He can tell you exactly what parts you need to build the Passenger side axle.

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 09-04-2013).]

IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-05-2013 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I tried find parts.com, I usually get dozens of replies, on this NONE. Whats a new series 2,engine all New,(+new AC comp) w'4t65HD mounted in a 86 cradle with 1 axle done WORTH ?
IP: Logged
Darth Fiero
Member
Posts: 5890
From: Waterloo, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2002


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 360
Rate this member

Report this Post09-05-2013 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The problem is there are many different design CV tripot bearings and tripot end "CUPs" floating around out there. If you get the wrong one, you're not going to be able to use the stock Fiero parts with it.

What you need is a inner tripot end "CUP" from a 1997-2003 or so W-body GM car that had the 3800 SC engine. C/H/G Body cars used the same trans but likely had a different design inner tripot end "CUP" that installed into the trans. The stock Fiero MT CV axle parts are INCOMPATIBLE with this different design.

AND if you go to the parts store and buy a new CV axle, it will likely have a totally DIFFERENT design inner tripot "CUP" and matching bearings that may not resemble anything GM ever put in a car.

MY ADVICE: Call Morad Parts Company and tell them what you need. They deal with enough Fiero people that they should be able to get you the correct tripot end "CUP" you need to complete your swap.

-ryan

------------------
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 09-05-2013).]

IP: Logged
black88fiero
Member
Posts: 402
From: Brunswick, Ohio
Registered: Jul 2006


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for black88fieroClick Here to Email black88fieroSend a Private Message to black88fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
what ryan said, i used to work for ed.. he has a box of oem passenger side axle cups off hd tranys just for this reason.. I thought they were less then 30 shipped if i remember correctly.. dont hold me to it tho... 216 671 3736 is the shop number

[This message has been edited by black88fiero (edited 09-06-2013).]

IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
now I'm interested, who's Ed ?
IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

8436 posts
Member since May 2008
I'll try to call tomorrow. thanks
IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 01:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Lou6t4gto

8436 posts
Member since May 2008
wouldn't have a # for morad parts co, would ya ?
IP: Logged
Tweeder
Member
Posts: 1025
From: Kitimat, BC, Canada
Registered: Aug 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TweederSend a Private Message to TweederEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

wouldn't have a # for morad parts co, would ya ?


If its in Cleveland, +1 216-671-3736
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
black88fiero
Member
Posts: 402
From: Brunswick, Ohio
Registered: Jul 2006


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 01:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for black88fieroClick Here to Email black88fieroSend a Private Message to black88fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea sorry the info i posted is for ed morad / morad parts company
IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 02:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
thanks
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 14541
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 325
Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 08:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Other years may be different but when Installing a 06 or 07 3800SC GTP powertrain, the 4T65eHD trans side cups and inner assembly fit the medium diameter GM axles...Transport van, Cavilier, Beretta etc. The GTP outer axle assembly inner fit the Fiero cups on that end.
In summation use GTP trans side Tripod cup assembly (inner and outer) a suitable length axle (Beretta, Cavilier, Transport Van) the GTP wheel side inner assembly and the Fiero wheel side cup.
Depending on how your engine is mounted you will need to measure and choose the axle bar size needed. A while back there was a chart posted with all of the popular axle lengths. Here it is.
From the archives:
While there are some very good tips on this forum for swap axles, the final axle choice will be determined by powertrain location.
Having said that lets take a look at CV axle compressed total lengths.
Here are the popular choices:
Drivers sides .......................Passenger side
Fiero Manual axle 22 3/4"
Fiero Auto 21"
95 Beretta all 20 1/4".................. 21 1/4"
95 Corsica all 20 1/4".................. 21 1/4"
95 trans Sport Auto 20/ 1/4" ............... 23 3/8"
98 Lumina auto 20 3/8" ............... 23 1/2"
98 Buick Regal 21 3/8" ................
02-04 Cavilier auto 21 3/16" .............. 21 3/16"
02-04 Caviliar stick 23 5/8"

The above axles in most cases must be assembled to the 4T65eHD inner tripots and the Fiero outer members. So to answer the question measure up and choose. There is no univeral swap axle set.
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 09-06-2013).]

IP: Logged
Lou6t4gto
Member
Posts: 8436
From: sarasota
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My trans is setup with stock trans mounts, so the engine/trans is centered, Both axles are the same length. the stock Fiero drivers side axle fits perfect. I need to make the pass side the same length (only problem thus far being the CUP and Tripot.) I have a new Manual trans axle for a drivers side to use for the pass side. Now I Have the INFO, finding the Cup and Tripot..... OR, does anyone HAVE a "Already Assembled Axle" to fit this, the same length as a stock driver side axle ? Have not called ED yet. Thanks
IP: Logged
aaronkoch
Member
Posts: 1643
From: Spokane, WA
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The "new" manual driver's side axle you have, is it a GM part? Only reason I'm asking is that the aftermarket ones will sometime (usually) have a complete end-to-end solution in which the tripot cup and tripot are unique to the manufacturer and not GM compatible (when you're trying to mix & match parts).

I know Joe (Fieroking) has run into this a few times, and almost always has to get rebuilt GM axles or wrecking yard ones to make it work.

------------------


Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

IP: Logged
MstangsBware
Member
Posts: 11509
From: TEXAS
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (108)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 459
Rate this member

Report this Post09-06-2013 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

The "new" manual driver's side axle you have, is it a GM part? Only reason I'm asking is that the aftermarket ones will sometime (usually) have a complete end-to-end solution in which the tripot cup and tripot are unique to the manufacturer and not GM compatible (when you're trying to mix & match parts).

I know Joe (Fieroking) has run into this a few times, and almost always has to get rebuilt GM axles or wrecking yard ones to make it work.
Add




BINGO!!!!!!!!!!...I mentioned this in PMs......I can make u the axle u r asking for..Stock OEM manual Fiero with inner HD tulip....$175 shipped.
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock