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Problem bleeding brake after Grand Am upgrade by paulcal
Started on: 08-27-2013 09:41 PM
Replies: 13 (331 views)
Last post by: paulcal on 09-14-2013 07:36 PM
paulcal
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Report this Post08-27-2013 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So on the 4.9 I acquired recently I was attempting to drive it home when the drivers side caliper would not release a mile or so into the journey to it's new home. The rear wheels had already been upgraded to the Grand Am brakes but the fronts were stock. I figured the old OEM hose had failed internally causing the problem so since I was going to have to replace that I may as well go ahead and finish the brake upgrade and put Grand Am brakes on the front also. The upgrade is well documented and very straight forward and the parts to do it came with the car so what the heck, all I had to buy were new hoses and some brake fluid. It even came with new mounting brackets. I got everything switched over and installed and started with the bleeding by bleeding the passengers side 1st. That went very smooth and without a hitch. All I had to do to that one to bleed it was open the bleeding screw and let gravity do it's thing. The drivers side, on the other hand, is proving to be a major pain. I tried gravity bleeding and not a drop came out of the bleeder. I tried a vacuum gun and I could barely get anything out of it. Today I brought a friend with me and had him pump the brakes while I worked the bleeder. This worked a little better, I was at least able to get it to bleed some brake fluid but nothing significant enough to get the brakes working. I double checked all my hose connections, replaced the crush washers and promptly ran out of ideas at that point. I even went back and double checked the passenger side and it's still working fine. So now I've gone from wouldn't release with the stock system to won't engage with the new system.
This is the only thing left from keeping me from driving the car. What am I over looking?

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Report this Post08-27-2013 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ever think the same thing that was keeping the old one from releasing is keeping the new one from getting fluid? I would look for a blocked line some place. Take the hose off and see if you can get fluid through without it hooked the the caliper. Larry

[This message has been edited by trotterlg (edited 08-27-2013).]

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paulcal
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Report this Post08-27-2013 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a thought. At least it's the one closest to the MC. Thanks.
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post08-27-2013 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On the GA brake swap, the calipers end up up-side-down with the bleeders at the bottom of the calipers so it's difficult to effectively bleed them while they're installed to the knuckle. I've always bled them with the knuckle connected hydraulically, but not mechanically to the knuckle so that I can hold them with the bleeder up. I place a block of wood or something equivalent between the pads in case the piston moves a bit while bleeding.
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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post08-27-2013 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

On the GA brake swap, the calipers end up up-side-down with the bleeders at the bottom of the calipers so it's difficult to effectively bleed them while they're installed to the knuckle. I've always bled them with the knuckle connected hydraulically, but not mechanically to the knuckle so that I can hold them with the bleeder up. I place a block of wood or something equivalent between the pads in case the piston moves a bit while bleeding.


I just swapped the calipers left and right...

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Bloozberry
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Report this Post08-28-2013 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I recall correctly they must be installed on the opposite sides with the bleeder down. Certainly mine had to be installed upside down but for what reason I can't remember. Got a photo of yours?
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FIEROFLYER
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Report this Post08-28-2013 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have always installed GA calipers with the bleed screws up as well. I would also check for blockages or it would not be the first time a brand new caliper was no good. Dan

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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post08-28-2013 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

If I recall correctly they must be installed on the opposite sides with the bleeder down. Certainly mine had to be installed upside down but for what reason I can't remember. Got a photo of yours?


Might have to be done that way with stock hoses. I used the SS hoses from the fiero store. That gave me more length to use...
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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-28-2013 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Stock hoses work just fine, the calipers need to be installed with the bleeders up.
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post08-28-2013 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, they don't "need to be installed with the bleeders up" Joe, my car is proof of that. It does make bleeding the system more labour-intensive though. And now that MulletproofMonk mentions it, the hose length is likely why I installed mine that way, despite your experience with stock hoses Joe. I'm certainly curious now... possibly even curious enough to jack up the Stinger and see why I did it that way.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-28-2013 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, you're right, they don't need to be, but it makes bleeding them easier!
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Hudini
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Report this Post08-29-2013 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:

Ever think the same thing that was keeping the old one from releasing is keeping the new one from getting fluid? I would look for a blocked line some place. Take the hose off and see if you can get fluid through without it hooked the the caliper. Larry



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paulcal
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Report this Post09-01-2013 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got back on this today by starting with the m/c. Changed that out, bench bled it and everything else bled well except the front drivers side again. Disconnected the hose from the caliper and no fluid flow. Reconnected and started up the line, disconnected it at the top of the wheel well where the rubber line meets the hard line and no flow there either. Disconnected that line from the proportioning valve and not a drop came out. I left it disconnected, topped off the fluid and lightly stepped on the brake. No brake fluid came out of the proportioning valve where front left line comes into it. Ahh Haa. I drive back home and grab one off one of my parts cars to replace it with. After a couple of hours of cussing and muttering about all the brake lines I finally get the valve replaced. I get all four wheels off the ground and put the car up on jack stands so I can bleed the whole system again and work my way through to the drivers side front again. My buddy Jeff pumps the system up, I crack the bleeder and we get a nice squirt of brake fluid. Pump it up again and only a few drops come out this time, pump it up one more time, crack the bleeder and nothing. I'm right back to square one after spending the entire day replacing components. I do not believe that this is a problem with the caliper since it is getting fluid. I know it's not the hard line or the rubber line since brake fluid does flow through them. I am out of ideas.
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paulcal
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Report this Post09-14-2013 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for paulcalClick Here to Email paulcalSend a Private Message to paulcalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Problem solved: A) I switched the calipers so that the bleeder valve was pointed up.
B) Pumped up the system while a friend reset the proportioning valve.

After step B the system bled normally.
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