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Clutch problem with new LX9 3500 and Getrag 5-speed by masospaghetti
Started on: 07-20-2013 09:23 PM
Replies: 11 (352 views)
Last post by: masospaghetti on 07-25-2013 12:20 PM
masospaghetti
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Report this Post07-20-2013 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I got my swap running (!) as documented in my other build thread, however I am having trouble with the clutch system. Basically the clutch isn't disengaging the engine like it should.

I am using this clutch kit, K005901.



I rebuilt Rodney's slave cylinder with a new piston and seal and have that installed as well. The clutch pedal was replaced with a steel Fiero store unit, and the master cylinder is a couple years old. (The master cylinder worked fine before I swapped engines, so I assume it's still good).

I tried bleeding it a million times. I am getting decent throw on the slave cyl.

My questions: Are the Isuzu and Getrag clutch kits the same? Are the master cylinders the same? Any suggestions? Thanks all!
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Report this Post07-20-2013 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The master cylinder is the same. I know that not every pressure plate will swap between a Muncy and an Isuzu install however some may work for both. difference is how large a hole in the center where the fingers are and the height the fingers end up at with the clutch plate bolted down. Larry
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Report this Post07-20-2013 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The other observation I have made with clutch discs is that the "organic" compound discs like you are using have a slight chshion built into the disc. If you look at how it is made you can see how there is a slight space between the clutch materiel on each side and the driven plate in the center. This allows the disc to compress about .030 (on the one I measured) so not only do you have to release the pressure plate you have to release it more than the disc compresses or there will be drag on disc from the spring built into the material mounting. The puck type designs do not have this cushion built in. Can't tell you if switching would solve your problem but it definately will give more clutch release than with the organic type. Down side is that engaugement is not as smoothe bcause the cushinon is not there in the puck type discs. Larry
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-20-2013 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Picture of the cushion built into the organic type clutch:

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Report this Post07-21-2013 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by masospaghetti:

My questions: Are the Isuzu and Getrag clutch kits the same?


The throwout bearings between the Isuzu and Getrag are not interchangeable.

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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-21-2013 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The picture of the TO bearing is the proper one. Larrry
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masospaghetti
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Report this Post07-21-2013 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks everyone for the replies.

Is the shift arm supposed to look like this? It almost looks like the slave cylinder pushrod has worn it down, effectively reducing the throw of the slave.


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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-21-2013 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks just like it should. As long as the slave is not hitting the end of it's travel in the cylinder it is fine. There is a spring in the slave that keeps the slack out of the system, so it always starts out with the TO Bearing just touching the clutch fingers. Larry
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Report this Post07-21-2013 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now that you have it off, gently push in the clutch so that the slave fully extends, then measure how much rod is sticking out of it. After you put the arm back on and the rod in the socket, measure it will the clutch pushed in and make sure that distance is less than the first measurement. If it is the same then you are hitting the end of the travel. Larry

[This message has been edited by trotterlg (edited 07-21-2013).]

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masospaghetti
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Report this Post07-22-2013 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you for your thoughtful responses.

It looks like that a new clutch arm doesn't have that "second" depression cut into it like mine, from this thread: //www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-109314.html
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trotterlg
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Report this Post07-22-2013 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As long as the slave cylinder is not hitting the end of it's travel none of that will matter at all. Larry
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masospaghetti
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Report this Post07-25-2013 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I welded the relief full so the pushrod now sits about 1/8" - 1/4" farther back than before. Sure enough, the clutch now works.

As you said the slave must have run out of throw.

So for other Getrag users out there - if you are having clutch release problems, check this!
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