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quick 3800 axle question - I am using a NON-HD trans by qwikgta
Started on: 02-26-2013 09:42 PM
Replies: 7 (502 views)
Last post by: Fierotregg on 09-12-2013 08:30 AM
qwikgta
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Report this Post02-26-2013 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes I have used search, yes I have read about 50 axle threads, so many in fact that I have read myself confused. We have way too many 3800 axle threads, and 99% are about the HD trans.

Bottom line, I am using a 2004 NON HD trans attached to my 2004 3800 NA motor. I have the stock tripots attached to the trans. I have my two 88 Fiero MANUAL axles that I removed from the 88 GT. I know I need to use the ends that go into the spindles. I know the pass one is too long, I have read that the driverside one may work.

This is not a question about the axles but about the tripots. Can I use the stock NON HD tripots that are in the 2004 Trans, or do I have to use something else. I kept the tripots because they work with the trans now, so I'd think that once I get the correct axles i'm good. Right?

So I have stock tripots, and stock Fiero axle ends, I just need axles and the bearings.

Is there a difference between HD and Non HD tripots? Most threads I have read discuss using the 98 GTP axles, but again, my trans is non HD. No threads I have read actually discuss if there is a difference between the two.

Thanks for any help.

Rob
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FIEROFLYER
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Report this Post02-26-2013 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is different tripods depending on the car the tranny came out of if it was a W body GP etc... then yes it will work with the Fiero axles if it was an H body Bonneville etc then most likely no they use a larger diameter axle with a different design bearings.
The non HD pass side tripod is the same as the Fiero manual one. The Fiero manual drivers axle can be used on the pass side of the non HD 4T65E tranny if the mounts sit the tranny in the right spot to work. On most swaps the manual drivers axle is too short for the pass side which is why the Trans Sport or Lumina van axles are used because the over all length is longer for a better fit.
Hope this helps. Dan
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post02-27-2013 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A stock cavi axel should work.. oem only no aitozone
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qwikgta
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Report this Post02-28-2013 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

Yes I have used search, yes I have read about 50 axle threads, so many in fact that I have read myself confused. We have way too many 3800 axle threads, and 99% are about the HD trans.

Bottom line, I am using a 2004 NON HD trans attached to my 2004 3800 NA motor. I have the stock tripots attached to the trans. I have my two 88 Fiero MANUAL axles that I removed from the 88 GT. I know I need to use the ends that go into the spindles. I know the pass one is too long, I have read that the driverside one may work.

This is not a question about the axles but about the tripots. Can I use the stock NON HD tripots that are in the 2004 Trans, or do I have to use something else. I kept the tripots because they work with the trans now, so I'd think that once I get the correct axles i'm good. Right?

So I have stock tripots, and stock Fiero axle ends, I just need axles and the bearings.

Is there a difference between HD and Non HD tripots? Most threads I have read discuss using the 98 GTP axles, but again, my trans is non HD. No threads I have read actually discuss if there is a difference between the two.

Thanks for any help.

Rob


Sorry, I forgot to mention that the motor/trans is out of a 2004 Grand Prix. So can I continue to use the stock tripot ends that are already attached to the trans? If so, i'll start working the axle issue next. I did pull, actually picked up, a 1997 Grand Prix SE passenger side axle that was already removed from the car. Someone had already done the hard work of removing the spindle/brakes, so I just pulled the axle out of the trans. I thought I could use the 1997 tripot end if needed.

I don't have the stock (2004) axles that came with the car, I just removed the tripot ends and put them back into the trans as we were leaving the yard, thinking I could use them, but now reading all these threads, I don't know anymore.

Rob
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qwikgta
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Report this Post09-11-2013 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
UPDATE:

I am adding this post to this thread in case some future individual needs the help.

Engine: 2004, 3800 N/A
Trans: 2004, 4T65E (not the HD trans)
Cradle: 1988, (manual car but I don’t think it matters)
Mounts: WCF
This is what I had to do to make the WCF mounts work in my application: I had to notch the 2 bolt holes to allow the engine mount to fit.
I had to notch the trans cradle holes to allow me to move the trans over to center the axles between the lower control arms mounts.
The engine/trans was not centered (left to right) on the cradle, it was about an inch over to the drivers side.

Driver side Axle:
After reading all I could about this trans/cradle I decided to try an 88 Auto trans – drivers side axle – in my drivers side and it worked just fine. No issues. Only issue I had was finding one.

Passenger side Axle:
On this one I had the same issues that everyone else has but this is what I did. I found out that an 88 Driver side Manual axle would fit into the trans. Since I had one I decided to give it a try. Since I had taken my 88 manual axles apart so I could reuse the hub ends I had a few spare parts to play with. I removed the snap-ring from the end of the tripot so that I could install and remove it easy and then tested to see if it would even fit into the 4T65E. It did. Then I had to see if the axle was long enough. It was not. After a few tests I was about an inch short. When the suspension was at full up/down the axle would just start to slip out of the tripot. I felt this was unsafe. My fix. I had another trans side tripot that was used in my LS3/Getrag swap. Part of Archie’s kit is a mod to the passenger side axle to extend it about an inch. This is done to make up the difference for the adapter plate and to allow the flywheel to clear the axle. He found a GM axle tripot that was spined to fit the trans and had a similar bearing that is used in the Fiero axle. I believe he said it was a Cadillac unit. It is about an inch longer, so when I put it in the 4T65E it fit fine, and allowed the stock 88 manual drivers side axle to fit with room to spare. I did all the checking without the boot on and no axle grease so I could verify. After I made sure it worked, I greased it up, put a boot on it and then put the snap ring on. Then I installed it. I have not driven it yet, but so far it all looks good.
I hope this helps.

Pics soon.

Rob
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Raydar
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Report this Post09-11-2013 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good information! Thanks for sharing.
I saw your other thread too. Maybe the info won't get buried as so often happens.
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jb1
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Report this Post09-12-2013 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

if it was an H body Bonneville etc then most likely no they use a larger diameter axle with a different design bearings.

on my N* axles I found that on the outer joint the inner part (star? whatever you call it) that is splined to fit the axle is the same size on the outer where the balls fit, so if you wanted to run the bigger axle shafts you can swap that inner part into the fiero outer joint and fit the larger axle,, I have to build my pass axle next week and will post pics... I learned it when was building dr. side axle.
Hope that makes sense..

------------------


87 GT
series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar/ 4t80e
86GT 3800 n/a
My Build

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Fierotregg
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Report this Post09-12-2013 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierotreggClick Here to Email FierotreggSend a Private Message to FierotreggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the setup I used with my 2000 Bonneville 3800NA/4T65-E swap. FieroX mounts, Fiero auto axle on the drivers side, 1995 Pontiac Transport w/4T60-E passenger side axle and inner with a Fiero manual outer on the passenger side. It works perfect.
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