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Fiero frames by bryantbackus
Started on: 02-24-2013 10:25 PM
Replies: 45 (2798 views)
Last post by: bryantbackus on 09-03-2013 10:07 PM
bryantbackus
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I'm new to this forum and I don't have much auto mechanic experience as I am only 17. However I do listen well and pick things up quickly and can understand what I'm told. I just bought an 86 gt (my first) and found out the frame is rotted out. Not sure if it is too bad to reinforce, but I have been looking around for a frame. I would rather have an entire frame I could refurbish and put on the car than reinforcing the junk which is on it now. My question is, if I were to buy a frame from a 1987 Fiero, would it be a perfect fit , or is it different from the previous year? Would I need to modify the 1987 frame to fit on my car? I've looked around and searched but could not find a definitive answer. Also out of curiosity, would other year frames fit on my 86 without modification, or are they different? Thanks.
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Report this Post02-24-2013 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for donuteater306Click Here to Email donuteater306Send a Private Message to donuteater306Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the world of Fiero. Sorry about the rotted frame..that really sucks. The sub-frame, aka engine cradle are basically the same from 84-87. I'm not sure however if there is a difference between the 4cyl cradle and 6cyl cradle. Where is the rot, exactly?
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bryantbackus
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From what the shop told my dad, everywhere. He was going to talk to them to see what they could do but the man said it would be unsafe to drive though. I couldn't find an 86 frame which is why I began looking for other frames.
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post02-24-2013 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

bryantbackus

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Member since Sep 2012
Btw I knew the car needed a new cradle so I do have an 86 cradle for a v6 already, I just wasn't sure about the rest of the frame.

[This message has been edited by bryantbackus (edited 02-24-2013).]

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marshall12285
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Report this Post02-24-2013 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for marshall12285Send a Private Message to marshall12285Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've done this a couple times on different cars. They get pretty rotten around here with all the road salt and such. It's not a vehicle where you can just lift the body off and replace a flat frame underneath the car. It's a space frame so the whole car pretty much has to be disassembled and transferred. I believe any 85-87 would swap the best but there's going to be wiring differences unless you find an identical car. My last one I swapped an 87gt to a clean 85se frame. I transferred all the body, interior, wiring, etc to keep it exactly as the 87 was and because the 85 was a base model notchback and the 87 was a loaded fastback. It's a pretty serious amount of work. Your other option would be to disassemble the bad parts and weld replacement frame rails or whatever you need in. I wish I took some pictures to give you a better idea but I'm sure someone on here has some, at least of the bare frame.
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Report this Post02-24-2013 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for donuteater306Click Here to Email donuteater306Send a Private Message to donuteater306Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
aww man, that really sucks! Marshall hit the nail on the head. When you pull back the carpet in the trunk, are there rust holes in the corners?
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post02-24-2013 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So my best bet would probably to cut out bad spots and weld in rails? And I'm not sure about the rust under the carpet, the car is still in the shop. I do know there was a large hole rusted through the original cradle which made the back wheel wobble. Thanks for the information. I couldn't really find answered anywhere else.

[This message has been edited by bryantbackus (edited 02-24-2013).]

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Report this Post02-25-2013 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for donuteater306Click Here to Email donuteater306Send a Private Message to donuteater306Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do yourself a favor. Before you spend any time and money repairing the damage you're currently aware of, Inspect the entire unibody front to back, looking for additional rust damage. Check the radiator support and surrounding structure. Pull the plastic wheel-well liners down and get in there with a mirror and flashlight. I'd even go so far as to pull the outer skin off at least one of the two doors to check the integrity of the door structure. Those plastic skins hide a lot of rust. Once you know exactly what needs to be replaced, then do the math. Will it be worth rebuilding/repairing this frame or more cost efficient and safer to replace it with one that's rust free. Not to be all parent like but your safety needs to come first. As i'm sure you know, a rusty frame will not protect well in an accident.
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Report this Post02-25-2013 03:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ckrummySend a Private Message to ckrummyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have a particularly nice or well optioned Fiero then i would say your best bet would be to find a non running 85-87 car (even an 88 if you find a good deal) with a solid frame and then swap your engine, interior, body, etc. If your patient you can usually find them cheap because they have a reduced scrap value. Pretty much everything is modular and cross compatible for the most part. Working on cars is just a matter of figuring out how stuff is put together, a digital camera really helps remember how things go together, just take a picture after everything you take off so you know how it goes back together, But i will say no matter what you decide to do, only work on one area at the time, keeps it from feeling like a huge project. Good luck.
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Report this Post02-25-2013 03:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DaytonTDClick Here to Email DaytonTDSend a Private Message to DaytonTDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would not waste time swapping everything onto a better unibody. For the amount of time and effort your better off buying a better fiero and selling this. But if you really want to keep it then I'd buy another Fiero, maybe one that isn't running and use this one as a parts car. You can also sell some other parts off of it on ebay.
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Report this Post02-25-2013 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

I just bought an 86 gt (my first) and found out the frame is rotted out. Not sure if it is too bad to reinforce, but I have been looking around for a frame.


Pics of rust?
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post02-25-2013 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see what you mean about the frame
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/063850.html

I don't have the car in my possession at the moment but when I do I will take some pictures.
This started as a learning experience and the time it took to get it road worthy wasn't a problem. So I will probably try to get a frame and swap everything over. What better way to learn then to take the whole thing apart.
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post02-25-2013 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My dad and I decided on getting a frame or cheap Fiero with a good frame from somewhere. Now I just have to look. Thanks for all the help.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post02-25-2013 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DaytonTD:

I would not waste time swapping everything onto a better unibody. For the amount of time and effort your better off buying a better fiero and selling this. But if you really want to keep it then I'd buy another Fiero, maybe one that isn't running and use this one as a parts car. You can also sell some other parts off of it on ebay.


+1

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Report this Post02-25-2013 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for donuteater306Click Here to Email donuteater306Send a Private Message to donuteater306Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's pretty awesome...you better take lots of photos and update us regularly. I bet I speak for all when I say that i'd love to watch the progress!
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post02-25-2013 10:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will do. As soon as I can find a good frame I will start. When I get my gt back I will take pictures of it as well
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Report this Post02-26-2013 12:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ReallybigSend a Private Message to ReallybigEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I pulled a 5spd out of an 87 last month locally. The car was virtually rust free, better than mine for sure! Even the cradle was perfect. It got crushed last weekend. I'm always amazed how some cars in the wrecking yards can be almost mint...just bad paint and in need of a clutch job.
Good luck! There are good ones out there. And definitely take lots of pics. I love watching the progress!
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bryantbackus
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Ok so I located a good rolling chassis with a lot of good parts in New Hampshire. About 4 hours or so from where I live.
It can be seen here:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/057767.html
I may go get it this weekend depending on my schedule. I'm use very busy. Right now I'm in my highschool basketball post season so things are a little crazy. I will post more when I know more
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Report this Post02-26-2013 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bryantbackus,
I see you are in Hamden, I'm in Beacon Falls.
I would be glad to help you out with your project if needed.
I will try to PM you later

Bob
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post02-26-2013 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds great! I need all the automotive knowledge I can get.
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Report this Post02-26-2013 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you can come to California, I know someone with a Fiero frame that's rust free AFAIK.
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bryantbackus
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I don't think I will be able to get to California.
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post04-13-2013 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I got the car from hooksett last Sunday and have not gotten much done because i have been busy and my parts car is still in a shop and should be back in the near future. Then I can begin swapping needed parts. The only problem is that the car from hooksett is an auto but it came without axles, a transmission, engine, ECM and a shifter assembly. My parts car is a manual and had all the parts so I decided that I will swap it over to manual. I am aware there is some wiring differences and when I get to that I will need to know what the best way is, solder wires, or swap the wire harness. Despite that, I have removed the dash and instrument cluster as well as the master cylinder for the breaks in order to access the spaces where parts will need to be installed. I will also replace the master cylinder since it was not bolted down and the brake was detached along with the radiator and supports which are bent and rusted. The hood also has a hole near the lights so I will need to take that off the parts car as well. Not to mention the donor only has one headlight and it is not on any supports. Any help through this process would be appreciated. I will post pictures a little later once I figure that out.
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Report this Post04-13-2013 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

So I got the car from hooksett last Sunday and have not gotten much done because i have been busy and my parts car is still in a shop and should be back in the near future. Then I can begin swapping needed parts. The only problem is that the car from hooksett is an auto but it came without axles, a transmission, engine, ECM and a shifter assembly. My parts car is a manual and had all the parts so I decided that I will swap it over to manual. I am aware there is some wiring differences and when I get to that I will need to know what the best way is, solder wires, or swap the wire harness. Despite that, I have removed the dash and instrument cluster as well as the master cylinder for the breaks in order to access the spaces where parts will need to be installed. I will also replace the master cylinder since it was not bolted down and the brake was detached along with the radiator and supports which are bent and rusted. The hood also has a hole near the lights so I will need to take that off the parts car as well. Not to mention the donor only has one headlight and it is not on any supports. Any help through this process would be appreciated. I will post pictures a little later once I figure that out.



This will be a time consuming, but REALLY fun project. I was in the process of converting an automatic transmission (1987) Fiero into a manual transmission car, so if you want, I've got a lot of pictures and diagrams up on my website that you can refer to. I got most of my information from several of the members on here: http://www.pontiacperforman...et/car87FieroSE.html

There's different sections, just click on the dash warning logos for the various areas (transmission, electrical, etc)

It's really not that bad of a job, and I think you're going about it the right way. There's probably a lot of nice stuff on your 86, so I would go about making sure you get what you can.

Since you're new to Fieros, I'll mention a couple of things that you might not be aware of. The 1987 model year had slightly improved wiring, which included a few other little odds and ends. Specifically, the headlight motors are newer and can be rebuilt much easier than the earlier years. You'll want to keep the 87 headlight motors. There's a few other minor differences, but pretty much EVERYTHING from the 86 and 87 are interchangeable. You'll want to make sure that aside from wiring and headlight motors, you'll want to keep whatever is nicer from the two of them.


The biggest part about this is planning. What you don't want to end up happening is that you end up going off to college, and you have two non-running junk cars that you have to send to the junkyard. So if space or time is a consideration, you'll want to work on the important things first, like moving the engine / transmission over to the 87 roller first and foremost. If life takes hold and you have to make some decisions, it's a lot easier to have a single non-running car follow you around, than two non-running cars follow you around.

If it gets to the point where you have to junk the 86 (the rusty one), make sure you take everything off of it that you'll think you're going to need.


Anyway, good luck, and feel free to post all your questions on here.
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bryantbackus
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okay i will go take a look at it. i will probably still need help when it comes time to actually do the wiring for the clutch pedal because i do not want to mess that up. I do not have an auto steering column so I am using the manual one . hopefully that means i will not have to worry about wiring specifically due to the column. however i have been trying to do some research and i keep seeing people talking about vss switches and ignition switches and various changes that need to be made to the wiring. I am pretty good at looking at the pictures and figuring out how to install the various pieces such as the clutch pedal and slave cylinder. However, wiring is completely different and I will probably need a lot of help.
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Report this Post04-14-2013 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

okay i will go take a look at it. i will probably still need help when it comes time to actually do the wiring for the clutch pedal because i do not want to mess that up. I do not have an auto steering column so I am using the manual one . hopefully that means i will not have to worry about wiring specifically due to the column. however i have been trying to do some research and i keep seeing people talking about vss switches and ignition switches and various changes that need to be made to the wiring. I am pretty good at looking at the pictures and figuring out how to install the various pieces such as the clutch pedal and slave cylinder. However, wiring is completely different and I will probably need a lot of help.



To be honest... there's a lot of "short-cuts" you can take that will allow you to be able to convert your car to a manual and be able to drive it, and no one would really know the difference; however, if you want to make it "like stock" which is what I was going for (complete with Shift-Up light), then you'll want to go through the whole process. A lot of the switches and stuff have to do with the steering lock, cruise control, etc. You can realistically bypass ALL of that and just not have to worry about it. I prefer to do things as they were originally, so that's why I went through all the trouble.
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bryantbackus
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What would be the minimum amount of wiring I would need to do for the car to work and operate safely?
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Report this Post04-14-2013 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

What would be the minimum amount of wiring I would need to do for the car to work and operate safely?



Well I'm hoping that some other people will chime in here, but here's what I can think of off the top of my head:

1 - Cruise Control Wiring - You can either disable the cruise, not use it, or whatever. The wiring for this has a switch on the clutch as well as the brake which are used to immediately disable the cruise when either is pushed... this is to prevent the engine from racing when the clutch is engaged, or from working against the brake when the brake is engaged. So you can kind of make a decision on this.

2 - Shift-Up Wiring - There is a light that illuminates in the gauge cluster that tells you when to shift for optimal fuel economy. Many people just outright disable this. But there is wiring never the less that is included for the manual. You can skip this if you want.

3 - Shift / Column Interlock (or whatever it's called) - In the automatic, there is a switch that allows you to unlock the steering column when the automatic shift selector is put in the PARK position. This wiring would normally be moved somewhere (I totally forget). I think maybe the clutch pedal or perhaps the little latch mechanism on the ignition key. You can bypass this too, but then you don't have a locking steering column.

4 - Clutch Safety Start Switch - Don't remember if this is re-used with the cruise disable... but there's a switch on the clutch pedal that prevents you from starting the car unless you depress the clutch pedal all the way. That's to prevent you from starting the car in gear.

5 - Reverse Switch - I don't remember how it's handled in the automatic, but there is a reverse switch for the manual transmission which needs to be resolved so that when you move the shifter into reverse, it engages the reverse light. MAYBE... the switch is on the auto shifter, and needs to be moved to the reverse switch on the transmission, I can't remember.

6 - Vehicle Speed Sensor - Don't remember what the deal with this is, but I don't think you can skip it, and this wiring needs to be handled in the engine bay.

7 - Torque Lock-up Converter - If you're going to be using the automatic ECM, there's something you need to do for the Torque Lock-Up Converter solenoid connector. I think maybe you loop it, or something. You might be better off just getting a manual ECM though. Again... depends how far into it you want to go. I ended up going with a manual ECM in my swap.

8 - Last thing, but not totally sure... if you have a power trunk release, the trunk release solenoid should be disabled while you're driving or in gear. I don't remember how this is handled in the manual vs. the automatic.


I don't know if there's anything else beyond this... Any one of the items I listed above except for #6 and #7 can be skipped... but it detracts from functionality and safety.


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Report this Post04-15-2013 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm bumping this because I'd really like to hear from someone else to see if there's anything I'm missing (in terms of wiring) in my reply above this one.
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quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

So I got the car from hooksett last Sunday and have not gotten much done because i have been busy and my parts car is still in a shop and should be back in the near future. Then I can begin swapping needed parts. The only problem is that the car from hooksett is an auto but it came without axles, a transmission, engine, ECM and a shifter assembly. My parts car is a manual and had all the parts so I decided that I will swap it over to manual. I am aware there is some wiring differences and when I get to that I will need to know what the best way is, solder wires, or swap the wire harness. Despite that, I have removed the dash and instrument cluster as well as the master cylinder for the breaks in order to access the spaces where parts will need to be installed. I will also replace the master cylinder since it was not bolted down and the brake was detached along with the radiator and supports which are bent and rusted. The hood also has a hole near the lights so I will need to take that off the parts car as well. Not to mention the donor only has one headlight and it is not on any supports. Any help through this process would be appreciated. I will post pictures a little later once I figure that out.


The car i sold you was a standard (used it to swap my Fiero to a Getrag 5 speed). The wiring should be all set to be for a manual transmission, no swapping of wires needed. As I said the car was QUITE Rough, and you said all you needed was a frame! I go to CT regularly, and I can probably swing by a few times to give you a hand while I am in the area, and give you any info. Just give me a call if you need any info on that car, or if you need anything!

EDIT:

There was one problem with the directionals, where the fire damage is on the front bumper. I think there may be a burned wire there! The fire damage was because the previous owner (before me) had it in a storage unit that caught fire. the Fiero was burned only on it's bumper but still may have damage to some wiring. Just a heads up!

Need ANY Wiring help, I am your man! I love wiring things.

[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 04-15-2013).]

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mcguiver3
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Report this Post04-15-2013 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm still just over the hill here in Beacon Falls if you need a hand but the racing season is now starting and weekends are at a premium.

Bob
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bryantbackus
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Oh so it was a standard. That's great. I was thrown off because of the included auto shifter. That makes life a lot easier. I will look at the wiring in the front. I also noticed one of the brake lines got torn off so ill figure out where that goes too. I generally only get to work on this on Saturdays or Sundays or rare days where I don't get much homework and have maybe one sports practice. I've been busy though because I'm playing baseball for my highschool and aau basketball and generally tournaments are weekends. Sunday is usually my day.

Bob, I will most likely need your help when the time comes to put the engine back in. Right now I'm just treating parts of the chassis for surface rust with this stuff called por-15. It's cheaper than getting anything powder coated and it seems like a good product to prevent rust.

If any other questions come up ill post here.
Thanks for the help

I will most definitely need help with wiring lol. That would be great. I will let you know when I get all the parts such as the head lamps and need help wiring them back in especially or the front right where I noticed a ripped wire.

[This message has been edited by bryantbackus (edited 04-15-2013).]

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bryantbackus
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So far i have been taking parts out of the front compartment in order to paint it. These are the before and after pictures:




Afterwards i was looking specifically at the wiring so it would be set when i begin to put everything back in and there are two cut wires on each the left and right sides. I am assuming they were for the headlamp motors but I'm not sure. The pictures are below and i was hoping someone could tell me. The car is an 87 gt and to my knowledge there isn't any modification to the wiring but Racing_Master would know more then i would about what was done to the car.

passenger side


driver side

[This message has been edited by bryantbackus (edited 06-19-2013).]

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bryantbackus
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Report this Post06-18-2013 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just got my parts car back from the garage on Friday and began to take it apart in the front to get the parts I need. Haven't done much however because I was sick all weekend. Will work on it when I can and will post more pictures.
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Patrick
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Report this Post06-19-2013 02:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

These are the before and after pictures...


Those 408x306 images are awfully small. Makes it very difficult to see much of anything.

Post images that are 1024 wide, and we'll be able to see what the heck you're doing!
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bryantbackus
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Report this Post06-19-2013 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bryantbackusClick Here to visit bryantbackus's HomePageClick Here to Email bryantbackusSend a Private Message to bryantbackusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ill try to repost them. I had to make them smaller because when I uploaded them in pip the program said the pictures were too big. When I uploaded them they were pretty large. Ill check on that.
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Report this Post06-19-2013 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

I had to make them smaller because when I uploaded them in pip the program said the pictures were too big.


Keep in mind, being "too big" can apply to either the width of the image and/or the file size.


[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-19-2013).]

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bryantbackus
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Edit: I figured out how to make the pictures larger.
Also, when I got my parts car, i answered my own question which i previously asked. The wires in each section were color coated the same so I was able to figure out that the two cut wires go to the headlamps.

EDIT

[This message has been edited by bryantbackus (edited 06-19-2013).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post06-20-2013 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bryantbackus:

Edit: I figured out how to make the pictures larger.


Excellent, you catch on quick.
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bryantbackus
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Thanks haha
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