I have a 1988 Fiero Formula 2.8, are there any brake upgrades that can be done to increase rotor size and dtopping force that willl fit behind the stock black lace wheels?
Every time I read requests like this I wonder if the brakes are working properly, because 88 brakes are still impressive if everything is in good shape. Make sure the sliders are free and you have good quality pads. If you have a 200 hp swap, maybe you need bigger brakes, but the stock setup is pretty nice.
look up the Lemons chump car build by donp .they are using stock 88 brakes on there racecar and they work really well .in the thread he mentions the pads they using .
Cheap pads are the reason people think Fiero's brakes suck, especially in 88's. Cheap replacement pads are made of a material that is too tough. It's extremely durable, thus the heafty warranties offered on cheap pads. They have no coefficient of friction what so ever, and they eat the rotors. Get some good pads, EBC's Green/Yellow as Justinbart reccomended
I'd rather spend some more money on pads that will work great, and not damage the rotors, at the cost of having to replace them a bit more often.
Also, the S10 Brake booster mod is a must do in my opinion. The factory brake effort/response makes the brakes seem crappy, even though they are capable. Till you do the boster swap, then it feels like the brakes are of a modern vintage.
.they are using stock 88 brakes on there racecar and they work really well .in the thread he mentions the pads they using .
True. We are using the Wagner Thermoquiet P/N MX378 pads. Working extremely well for us. They aren't the cheapest pads, but seem to be good quality. I'm not even a little bit adverse to spending money on brakes if necessary. But not just for the gee-whizz factor. We ran these on a totally stock system with very good results. We did replace the hoses at all four corners and checked out the booster. I may go with the S-10 booster, as we step up our horsepower, but hate to mess with what working.
We have also autocrossed the same car. Don't know how you would get enough heat in racing pads in a 1 minute plus auto-x session. But we aren't as serious about it as some are.
High performance replacements for stock parts (hoses, pads, rotors) is all I would do also. I have an 86 and noticed an immediate improvement with a new rotor and pads plus proper lubrication of the slides and 88s have a better braking system. The "Big brake" swaps look nice behind the wheels especially if you have 17" wheels or greater but I'm over that. It'll take a lot more than 200 hp to require an upgrade also, it's really not that much, I'm there and haven't had any trouble stopping.
I agree with upgrading parts and making sure everything is working right. But I HATE the slider bar system. Is there any brakes calipers to swap in an that don't use that?
the 88 brakes are outstanding for thier size, just use the thermoquiet pads ,or carbomet pads from the fiero store,make sure your rotors are not grooved & there are no fluid leaks replace brake fluid,flush old fluid make sure all wheels turn equaly free,no one wheel has brake dragging the S-10 brake booster is the only modification you need just make sure your brakes are working as they should install better pads on the front first so you can see improved stopping performance never use cheap pads on a car you like to drive cheap pads are make cause you to mate with another vehicle !!
the 88 brakes are outstanding for thier size, just use the thermoquiet pads ,or carbomet pads from the fiero store,make sure your rotors are not grooved & there are no fluid leaks replace brake fluid,flush old fluid make sure all wheels turn equaly free,no one wheel has brake dragging the S-10 brake booster is the only modification you need just make sure your brakes are working as they should install better pads on the front first so you can see improved stopping performance never use cheap pads on a car you like to drive cheap pads are make cause you to mate with another vehicle !!
I know you always advocate for the wagner thermoquiets, and I have never used them, but when I did my brake upgrade I did a bunch of research to see which pads I should get and I read bad things about the thermoquiets. A significant amount of bad things. I opted to go for some performance friction brake pads after reading tons of good things about them.
And well I am really glad I went with them, I got them cheap on rockauto for around 25 bucks a set when they are usually close to 50 a set. They have great cold stopping power, around the same as nice stock pads, but then they heat up and grab even harder instead of fading. I really like them, and they truly are a racing bred pad and it is easy to tell. They make minimal dust and they are quiet. I have had them for around 1000 miles now and no problems. I do have grandam brakes, but I imagine they make them for the stock fiero brakes as well. They are carbon metallic pads and I think that combination is unique to them.
I have a 1988 Fiero Formula 2.8, are there any brake upgrades that can be done ...
The '88 Fieros came from the factory with very good brakes. Before doing anything else I always recommend restoring your stock brakes to optimum condition before contemplating any "upgrades."
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Originally posted by zkhennings:
... I did a bunch of research to see which pads I should get and I read bad things about the thermoquiets. A significant amount of bad things.
I have lots of miles over many years on Thermoquiet pads, both on my '88 Fiero and on several other different vehicles, and that has not been my experience. They have become my pad of choice. (It's probably the only thing that uhlanstan and I will ever agree on. )
The only problems I have ever heard of were loose/delaminated damping shims, which you should be able to see as soon as you open the box, and that was many years ago. The last Thermoquiets I bought were still manufactured in the U.S. or Canada, but some of their manufacturing operations may have moved to Asia since then. Can you provide links or citations? (Please don't bother with any simple, unsubstantiated testimonials like, "Thermoquiets suck!")
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-25-2013).]
I do a lot of work for people on their cars, a side business for me, and I do about 30 or so brake jobs a year and I always use Wagners and I have never had anyone complain or come back because of the pads. To me, Wagner Thermoquiet pads are the best brake pads available.
Wow when I bought my pads all I could find was bad reviews about the wagners! Now I can't find anything but good reviews? Anyways I just read that they fade with heavy braking, maybe I was searching for how good they are at the track. But that is why I went with the performance friction, I only read good things about them. They definitely outbrake the wagners but if you aren't in need of crazy fade resistance then I guess get the wagners.
This is crazy! I had been planning on buying wagners for so long because they are always being advocated for on every brake upgrade thread ever, and they were priced well so I was excited, and then when I searched for reviews I was let down and went for the more expensive performance friction pads. I cannot believe I can't find bad reviews now I feel like I am in the twilight zone or something!
My performance friction pads are awesome though, they brake BETTER stopping from 100 than from 60. And they stop way better than every other car my family owns at regular speeds (60). At 100 it is crazy how well they bite, and the pedal always stays very firm it gives a lot of braking confidence. They have a special bedding surface layer that coats your rotors so you have to make sure to bed them per the instructions.
[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 07-25-2013).]
I second what Gall757 said. 88's need to be serviced. What I am saying is most people don't take the time to ensure the big sliders are clean and free and lubed with the PROPER lube. I use Sil Glyde. Also that the boots are on properly. I have a rant thread about the boots. LOL And lastly the small slider pins that the pads rest on need to be clean and free and a very, very small amount of lube on them. Do you have the rears adjusted properly? Are you using your parking brake and are the cables adjusted properly? After owning an 88 for 12 years I learned how to adjust the rear cables, clean the sliders and pins etc.
Also buy better pads. For a while I bought the best NAPA pad.
OH get the best rotors you can. It is getting hard to find good quality rotors for the fronts, but you can but the best Napa rotor for the 93ish caviler fronts and install them on the rear of your Fiero. YES THEY WORK. I used them at least 6 if not more years on my 88. I drove daily and put about 10k per year on the car. You may have to address the dust shields if they are bent but they worked for me.
With this combo of best quality rotors and real good pads my brake wear was minimal. It got to the point that I could go many years with out replacing pads or rotors. But I did have to address servicing the sliders.
Just my .02
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 07-25-2013).]
I have to agree with those that are saying the 88 brakes are fine if they are serviced correctly. I have the entire 88 brake system on my 84 notchback, from the master to the calipers and the stopping difference between the stock 84 system vs the 88 system is almost unbelievable it is so much better. BUT...everything on the 88 system has been cleaned and greased or it is new such as hoses etc. I also have 12" rotors on the front but I don't think that really helps much with the stopping, I just wanted bigger rotors to fill up my 17" wheels.
Just out of curiosity, how do the 88 rotors compare to grand am rotors? Because they are the same OD I believe or within a half inch, are the grand am rotors significantly thicker? I imagine they are very similar. Well I have cooper Ts4's which grip pretty good and can lock my wheels up with ease using a blazer MC which means increased pedal effort on my part. I also don't experience brake fade anymore, so if the grand am rotors are very similar to the 88 rotors, and if you can lock your wheels up and you are running nice pads you won't need an upgrade. I bought AC delco heavy duty rotors when I did my brakes. They were like 5 bucks more expensive but boy are they heavy duty. I am not expecting them to warp any time soon.
Just out of curiosity, how do the 88 rotors compare to grand am rotors? Because they are the same OD I believe or within a half inch, are the grand am rotors significantly thicker? I imagine they are very similar.
The Grand Am rotors have a smaller diameter "hat". The 88 rotor "hat" had to be enlarged so the rotor would fit over the 88 front wheel flange. The Grand Am rotor won't. It works on the rear because they use the same wheel bearing between the Grand Am and the Fiero... but not the same case with the 88 front wheel bearing.
Fieroguru I was wondering because of heat dissipation because what I was trying to say was that my car stops awesome with grand am brakes, so if the 88 brakes are pretty similar in size then I would expect them to perform similarly if they are in good working order with nice pads.
Pads make a big difference... in fact going from crappy pads to good pads makes more of a difference than going from stock rotors to 12". I know this because I did each thing one at a time. First I replaced rubber hoses with stainless steel braided hoses. This had no noticeable effect. Next, I replaced the part-store pads with Porterfield R4-S pads. This resulted in an improved pedal feel, better control of stopping force, and way more stopping power -- I could much more easily induce lockup. Fade was still an issue with extended high-performance driving with 220 hp. Upgrading to 12" rotors eliminated fade.
Try the pads (I highly recommend the Porterfield R4-S pads), and clean/lube your calibers while you're in there.
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