when changing from 12 to 134, you not only "should" replace the o-rings, but you definitely HAVE TO change the OIL. then put in your freon where the blue cap is.
The desicant in a factory Fiero is not compatable with the conversion either. If you do not replace the drier you are looking for slow death in the compressor and pliccing up other stuff (it has been a long time but memory says it was 88 or 89 before the desicant was dual compatable).
I've had the refrigerant refilled at Midas before, does that tell me anything? I'd hate to have to bring it there for just a refill. Does the label on the accumulator tell us anything?
The lable says it has been "converted". rarely are conversions done properly. if your acumulator is factory, it needs to be replaced as part of the conversion. You likely also need to adjust the preasure switch down, unless it was already done.
The lable says it has been "converted". rarely are conversions done properly. if your acumulator is factory, it needs to be replaced as part of the conversion. You likely also need to adjust the preasure switch down, unless it was already done.
Okay...I'll be done for the day now. Stuff goes back to NAPA and off to Midas next week. Thanks for the info but I think I better leave this for the pros.
If that sticker is on your car, even if not filled out, you are probably r134a. Easiest way to tell:
Look at your service ports... are the screw-on type? Then you have not converted from r12 Are they air-compressor type fittings, one bigger one smaller? Then you HAVE converted to r134a.
If you are converted, all you need is to recharge according to the instructions... no further action unless its leaking.
If you have to convert, you will need to replace the Drier, O RIngs, oil in compressor and your orafice tube, convert the service ports (screw on new fittings- easy), get a vacuum on the system for a while to get the moisture out and then fill with r134a freon.
If you take and post a picture of your low and high side service ports without the caps on I can tell you immediately if you have been converted.
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 05-26-2012).]
If your AC has been PROPERLY converted to R134, it will blow as cold as ice with no need for gimmicks.
It did when it was working.
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:
If that sticker is on your car, even if not filled out, you are probably r134a. Easiest way to tell:
Look at your service ports... are the screw-on type? Then you have not converted from r12 Are they air-compressor type fittings, one bigger one smaller? Then you HAVE converted to r134a.
If you are converted, all you need is to recharge according to the instructions... no further action unless its leaking.
If you have to convert, you will need to replace the Drier, O RIngs, oil in compressor and your orafice tube, convert the service ports (screw on new fittings- easy), get a vacuum on the system for a while to get the moisture out and then fill with r134a freon.
If you take and post a picture of your low and high side service ports without the caps on I can tell you immediately if you have been converted.
Not sure what you mean by "caps". Not even sure which is the "high side". I'm totally unfamiliar with all of this so I really appreciate the advice.
From the pic you posted someone has already coverted the fittings to the r134a type. R-12 service ports are Schrader valves, threaded like the valves for the tires, r-134a service valves are non-threaded quick connects, like the fittings for air tools. The fitting coming off the accumulator (silver can) with the blue cap(cover) is your low pressure side. The fitting in the lower right background with the red cap is the high side.
Since you are not the person who performed the conversion it is not known if it was done "properly". Unknown,if all or what type of the o-rings were changed, how much and/or what type of oil was added, system flushed or not, compressor changed or not, etc. It's always a tough choice to spend the money and go thru and properly convert the ac or cross your fingers just try the "conversion in a can".
Alot of times our wallets end up dictating which way to go. If you do the conversion yourself, you end up with new knowledge and most important new tools!. If the cost is too high, then try the can method. You never know it might just end up working for you.
[This message has been edited by speed1 (edited 05-26-2012).]
From the pic you posted someone has already coverted the fittings to the r134a type. R-12 service ports are Schrader valves, threaded like the valves for the tires, r-134a service valves are non-threaded quick connects, like the fittings for air tools. The fitting coming off the accumulator (silver can) with the blue cap(cover) is your low pressure side. The fitting in the lower right background with the red cap is the high side.
Since you are not the person who performed the conversion it is not known if it was done "properly". Unknown,if all or what type of the o-rings were changed, how much and/or what type of oil was added, system flushed or not, compressor changed or not, etc. It's always a tough choice to spend the money and go thru and properly convert the ac or cross your fingers just try the "conversion in a can".
Alot of times our wallets end up dictating which way to go. If you do the conversion yourself, you end up with new knowledge and most important new tools!. If the cost is too high, then try the can method. You never know it might just end up working for you.
I bought the stuff so I think I'll give it a shot. So do I hook up the quick couple connector on the can to where the blue cap is?
The required label not being filled out renders the conversion illegal. You presumably know the type of refrigerant used (R134a), but you don't know the type of lubricant in the system ... old mineral oil (used only in R12 systems), PAG oil, or ester oil. PAG and Ester oils should never be mixed in the same system. How will you ever know what's actually in there?
I would strongly advise you NOT to go back to whoever placed that label on the accumulator.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-26-2012).]
Not sure what is included with your can, best to following direction from manufacturer of the product. Some interdynamics recharge cans have a basic pressure gauge that tells you in general if the system is fully charged. Start engine and turn on max ac, check to see if compressor clutch kicks in or not. If it does then next step remove (unscrew) the blue plastic cap (cover) and attach hose from can. If compressor clutch does not click on you may have to jump the teminals on the pressure switch (silver can) connector, before charging with the hose.
The required label not being filled out renders the conversion illegal. You presumably know the type of refrigerant used (R134a), but you don't know the type of lubricant in the system ... old mineral oil (used only in R12 systems), PAG oil, or ester oil. PAG and Ester oils should not be mixed in the same system. How will you ever know what's actually in there?
I would strongly advise you NOT to go back to whoever placed that label on the accumulator.
Not sure who when or where the label was placed there It was there when I bought the car over 5 years ago. I've had Midas service the a/c before but not sure what type of refrigerant was used?
Anyhoo....I'd like to try this product. Do I hook it up to the blue connector?
Not sure what is included with your can, best to following direction from manufacturer of the product. Some interdynamics recharge cans have a basic pressure gauge that tells you in general if the system is fully charged. Start engine and turn on max ac, check to see if compressor clutch kicks in or not. If it does then next step remove (unscrew) the blue plastic cap (cover) and attach hose from can. If compressor clutch does not click on you may have to jump the teminals on the pressure switch (silver can) connector, before charging with the hose.
That's the low side (under the blue cap- "L"= low side) The high side is probably under that red cap back toward the wall at the bottom. It looks like you have been converted.. but as marvin said, without the sticker filled out, you dont know what kind of oil they used.
[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 05-26-2012).]
Far as I know, the freon charge line will ONLY fit on the proper low pressure fitting. It wont go on the high one.
This is true if the conversion fittings were installed properly, which they do appear to have been. The red cap in that picture is the high side on 85-88 cars, and the blue cap is the low side. I would hook up a proper gauge set to both before beginning just to get an idea of what you're starting with. If the gauges read 0 on the high and low side, the system is empty, and there's probably a leak somewhere, which means adding that refrigerant will not do anything, and you'll just have wasted $25 worth of R-134A.
If the a/c was working but isn't now then I would say you have a leak somewhere and putting more freon in the system is a waste until you get the leak fixed. The freon will leak out again just like the previous batch did. My suggestion is to fix the leak first. But to do that you have to evacuate the system then find the leak. Of course since you say you need to charge it then the system is already free of freon. Do this properly, take it to someone that knows automotive a/c to get the leaks found and fixed. Otherwise you're just throwing money throwing money away by buying can after can as it just goes away out the leak(s).
Hey Gokart, so what did you do, fill the system? If there was a pressure gauge with the kit, you'll be able to check a couple weeks later, see where you're at. Some refill cans have the ultraviolet marking dye, makes it easier to detect leaks later with a cheap UV light if needed. That's how I found my leak at the end of the season, replaced some o-rings, now I'm waiting on delivery of a vacuum pump from Harbor Freight so I can pull a vacuum and recharge.
Hey Gokart, so what did you do, fill the system? If there was a pressure gauge with the kit, you'll be able to check a couple weeks later, see where you're at. Some refill cans have the ultraviolet marking dye, makes it easier to detect leaks later with a cheap UV light if needed. That's how I found my leak at the end of the season, replaced some o-rings, now I'm waiting on delivery of a vacuum pump from Harbor Freight so I can pull a vacuum and recharge.
Let us know how you did, ok?
Will do! I may do it this afternoon. I bought a diiferent product because this one does have a gauge on it. Easy to read instructions. If I lose my cool before the season's over I have everything done over.
Go down to Harbor Freight (if you have one close by) and get a set of their a/c gauges. Even if they aren't perfect, they're close enough for, well. you know the rest I had a leak and found the joint between the orifice tube connector and the evaporator was cracked. I was able to replace the evaporator, change ALL the O-rings and do a complete flush (including the orifice tube replacement) in about a week-end.
Since you're dealing with a hazardous material and don't want to leak 134a, If you're not sure how it was converted it's safe to bet something may have been damaged in the process. I've got ice cold A/C after my conversion BUT I have a qualified grad from UTI living with me monitoring what I did. (And you can't believe how much crap my son gave me at each step when I wanted to "shade tree" something!)
Otherwise, you can go down and get one (1) can of 134a that has the UV dye in it and put a light charge on your system. If it leaks, you can use a black light to find the leak.
BTW, is the compressor even turning on when you turn on the A/C?
Hey Gokart, so what did you do, fill the system? If there was a pressure gauge with the kit, you'll be able to check a couple weeks later, see where you're at. Some refill cans have the ultraviolet marking dye, makes it easier to detect leaks later with a cheap UV light if needed. That's how I found my leak at the end of the season, replaced some o-rings, now I'm waiting on delivery of a vacuum pump from Harbor Freight so I can pull a vacuum and recharge.
Let us know how you did, ok?
Worked great! I appreciate all the advice and I know I went against the grain but I wanted to give it a shot. If it runs out in short time I'll find a reputable ac service center other than Midas.
Worked great! I appreciate all the advice and I know I went against the grain but I wanted to give it a shot. If it runs out in short time I'll find a reputable ac service center other than Midas.
Excellent news Gokart.
Against the grain, you may (or may not) have a slow leak, works for now though, that's a good thing, learned in the process too, it's all good.
Like the others said, if you think you've got a slow leak, a can of ultraviolet tracer dye and a UV light, find the leak yourself. The guys here taught me alot, that's how I learned, great forum members helping each other.
I'd hate to have to bring it there for just a refill.
As far as I know if you have to refill your freon and nothing was changed than you have a leak and it should be fixed before you refill it again.. You should never have to replace freon in a good sealed and properly running A/C system.
Edit: nevermind someone already said it
[This message has been edited by gmctyphoon1992 (edited 05-27-2012).]
Against the grain, you may (or may not) have a slow leak, works for now though, that's a good thing, learned in the process too, it's all good.
Like the others said, if you think you've got a slow leak, a can of ultraviolet tracer dye and a UV light, find the leak yourself. The guys here taught me alot, that's how I learned, great forum members helping each other.
Yes and in all fairness I'll bump this back up if I run out in short time. Then I'll glady take and deserve a good ol' "told ya so"
Since we are talking about R-134a "conversions" I would like to know how to get the old mineral oil out of the system and the new ester oil in. Does the compressor need to get removed to drain it? I think that I can do the o-ring change without any issues. But the oil is the unknown part. After reading through this post I also found out the a new orifice tube is required. The things I learn on the site is amazing
Any good trusted mechanic shop with an A/C department can flush it for you and put the new R134A in..
The system is already empty. This is something I would like to learn how to do myself. I already have a hose set and vacuum pump. I think that a refrigerant recovery system is out of my budget, so is there any way to flush the old oil out and add the new oil with the tools that I have? This is the main purpose of this forum (I think). Sharing knowledge and learning new things about these great little cars. Any help is appreciated.
Giving this one a bump. Pretty good info here. And I'm sure many can still add.
Except for the part where people are wanting to put "Freon" in the converted system. Freon is a trade name from Du Pont to describe R-12. The systems are being converted to R-134 refrigerant.
Otherwise, blue low side , red high side. (Factory usually uses black on both on newer cars but as noted the connectors won't interchange). I have converted a few by removing the R-12, replacing the drier/accumulator, orifice tube, new oil and adjusting the low side switch. When all goes well, it will get as cold as the R-12 ever did.
What about the "ozone friendly" refrigerants that are advertised as compatible with R12 or R134?
What adjustment is made to the low side switch?
I never used the other stuff, just R-134.
As for the switch adjustment, when you pull the electrical plug off there should be a straight blade screw under there between the electrical blades that can be adjusted to trip at a lower pressure. It is the on the far right in the first picture above with the two green wires. Careful or you can get it low enough it will freeze up the evaporator. Here is some good info on the subject.
Thanks for the info! My local Pontiac dealer did the conversion on my '84 SE; I'm confident it was done properly. I have the 1984 Factory Service Manual; it's overwhelmingly detailed for an A/C neophyte... I understand the low pressure switch should energize the electric clutch to start the compressor when the low pressure reaches 21 psi. I currently have about 10 psi, so I presume the switch will activate when enough refrigerant is added. Is that correct?
Correct. Once the system is properly charged, it will cycle when it gets down to 21psi after the switch has been adjusted. If the system has a static pressure of only 10psi, it's still way too low. The system should be charged by weight, to 2.25lbs (90% of the original R-12 capacity of 2.5lbs). If it's at 10psi currently, did you add one can?
I had a leak and found the joint between the orifice tube connector and the evaporator was cracked. I was able to replace the evaporator, change ALL the O-rings and do a complete flush (including the orifice tube replacement) in about a week-end. 
