One thing I'll suggest even though you have it all together. Use some Never seize/anti seize on all threads in the exhaust system including the O2 sensor. (don't get any on the sensor tip) I would also use some on the the spark plug threads. The exhaust flange bolts look right. The washers won't fit any where else since the unthreaded part of the bolt is a larger diameter than the threaded part. Use some never seize on those threads also. If you ever have to take any of it apart again you will appreciate the never seize. IMHO keep the egr operating as normal. As prone as the duke heads are to cracking you don't want any detonation contibuting to the problem. I've had dukes with plugged egr and the spark knock/pinging was bad.
edit: Looked in the service manual and it doesn't show the washers on the exhaust flange bolts. Also checked the 22P with the same results. I'd take those washer back out and that will allow more spring tension on the flange.
[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 03-28-2012).]
edit: Looked in the service manual and it doesn't show the washers on the exhaust flange bolts. Also checked the 22P with the same results. I'd take those washer back out and that will allow more spring tension on the flange.
TYVM 2far for taking the time to look that up for us. Will do just as you recommend.
What type of dressing to put on the heater hose that connects to the underside of the intake manifold? Haynes doesn't say, only says " reattach heater hose fitting".
Bejeezus getting that heater hose threaded into the intake manifold was a bear! Got it on finally after lifting the rear end with the hoist and putting it on jackstands. Then I crawled under and reached up and got it started. Man what a PITA for some reason. It's all snugged up, what a crappy connector that is. Theres gotta be a better way to connect that hose...
2 1/2 gallons of fresh gas has been added. Hopefully any sediments in there will have a chance to settle, dunno. Brand new filters already in.
Now for a Questions.
How best to change the tranny fluid. I dont have a tranny pan gasket on hand. Didn't know I needed one till just now.
Also what about the tranny fluid cooling tank in the fenderwell. Will it need to be burped or anything? Just add fluid at the dipstick slowly, while checking regularly?
Help! I was hoping to try and start this car on Sunday.
Thanks for your time and any and all suggestions!!
[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 03-29-2012).]
Removed those out of place exhuast washers. As posted above by 2farnorth they don't go there. TY 2far.
Non AC belt is on. Spark plugs in and tightened. Just gotta put the plug wires back on. Then reinstall the air filter assembly. Took my shop vac out and cleaned the duct work in the fender well just to be safe.
Next I'm gonna drain and inspect the motor oil and filter. May reuse the original filter, dunno yet. we shall see. Then add fresh oil.
Next top the engine and so forth as much as posible with anti-freeze. Toss in a battery, charge it up and....we shall see...
All hooked back up and ready to try it out. Finally almost a year later.
No bullspit here, Absolutely just happend, my sone and I were out front on the porch and guess what went driving by... a gold fiero!! bumper pads!! No BS my son yelled hey dad look!! By the time I got turned around the dude was up the street. I ran out into the road and waved my arms. He honked and waved out the window!! Wow No bs!!
Great omen IMO!!
Just waiting for momma to get home and she can turn the key!.... Bringing our vid cam out! Man this is pretty excititng!
It Starts It starts !!!! on starting fluid. Starts right up and runs nicely. It's trying to run it sounds like. Seems like a fuel starvation issue. I'm just glad it turns over and runs at least! AWESOME! I gott figure out the fuel issue. Doesn't seem to be getting gas. The fuel pump is priming everytime, even after cranking we can hear the fuel pump running for a second or two.
Whats my checkdown sheet look like? Where to begin?
Soo close, man that gold fiero driving by our house has got to be some good mojo! Too funny. Just waiting for a Youtube video to upload then I'll edit for the link. Please take a second to watch the video and LMK what you think,anyone, please!!
Edit for clarification: The first few trys were wtih a different battery. We took the battery from my 86se that I drive almost everyday. After that is when we shot the above linked vid. srry
[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 03-31-2012).]
Did you do anything to the TBI? It could just be a sticky injector.
No I didn't touch the TBI at all. Thanks for chiming in. Any advice on checking it would be greatly appreciated! I'll go try and do some research on it. The haynes is terrible and the downloadable service manual kills my puter and searching through it takes me forever.
All four of the tests that Phonedogs mentions in that other linked thread above check out good. It's got to be a stuck injector. Once again the Haynes manual is horrible...the TBI setup they show in the Haynes is completely different looking then this one. sigh.
Perhaps we could try tapping it with a screwdriver handle while cranking?
Was a stuck injector!! Pulled it cleaned it up a lil and stuck a knife in the little holes and tweaked the spring inside around a bit. Did the trick!! I
IT LIVES!!! Another PFF'er Brandoncrrl is hear helping out! He's brought his 87 2.8L. Snap some pics before he leaves.
Seems to be ruuning great just a high idle maybe. Lots of white smoke coming out of the exhaust.
Vidoe coming soon!!
TYVM everyone for all the great help!! Momma gets home were gonna buy Cliff a few beers!! Guys are the best ever!
SES light went on during last engine run. Pulled the codes using the paper clip and came up with two seperate codes
Code 34 Map sensor
Code 45 Rich exhaust
I think maybe the code 45 might have something to do with all the marvel mystery oil burning off. At first there was quite a bit of white smoke coming out of the tail pipe, after a few minutes of idle time it seemed to lessen substantially.
The code 34, I will have to look into further. Perhaps a sticking map sensor?
Yes Curlup! What an awesome feeling of accomplishment!!
Thanks again everyone!!
Edit to add a important fact!! When i put the paper clip in and turned the key on the radiator fan came on and stayed running. Should this be happening? Brandon pulled his codes right after we did this car and his fan didn't come on at all...
Three running fieros in one place? Thats Brandons 87 2.8 5spd in the background, very nice car. Actually he ran us to the parts store in it. Rides nice.
[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 05-01-2012).]
The MAP sensor is the number one sensor the ECM uses to determine the mixture. So solve the MAP problem before worrying about the O2 problem.
First thing to check on your MAP sensor is vacuum lines. A cracked vacuum line could be causing both problems. So make sure your vacuum source is good. Then if your MAP problem still exists swap MAP sensors from a different Fiero (engine doesn't matter) and see if you have a bad sensor. Finally if none of these work, you can look at wiring to the MAP.
After getting the MAP sensor working properly see if the O2 rich problem re-occurs.
The MAP sensor is the number one sensor the ECM uses to determine the mixture. So solve the MAP problem before worrying about the O2 problem.
First thing to check on your MAP sensor is vacuum lines. A cracked vacuum line could be causing both problems. So make sure your vacuum source is good. Then if your MAP problem still exists swap MAP sensors from a different Fiero (engine doesn't matter) and see if you have a bad sensor. Finally if none of these work, you can look at wiring to the MAP.
After getting the MAP sensor working properly see if the O2 rich problem re-occurs.
Yeaaa! TYVM Phonez! I, no, we really appreciate your help. I have been lurking your posts from day one! Your vast cornicopia of fiero knowledge astounds me.
Will check all of the above first before proceeding!
Having the MAP connected to the wrong vacuum port from the throttle body will cause trouble also. Also note - 87 & 88 duke vacuum hoses are ran different than 84-86
Any ideas as to why the fan would come on when A-B pins are jumped and I turn the key to the RUN position? Shouldn't be doing this should it?
Pulling codes video. You can hear the fan kick on. Also can hear one of our neighbors interrupting to ask if I'm gonna come help him hook up his vcr/dvd player...
Have you cleaned the IAC? My current daily driver is an 84 SE which sat for 9 years in storage and I just bought all new sensors for the $$ its cheap insurance eliminates a lot of guess work. The lady who owned it had bought it new in 84 and babied it till she passed away last year. I told her every time I saw her I would buy it that a car like that should not be in storage and she promised if she ever sold it I would get first refusal. Well, when she passed her Husband told me if I wanted to pay the remaining storage fee I could have it. $200 later and it was in my shop. I am in Bangor what car show are you going to in this area? Maybe I will join ya all the mainahs on PFF should get together and do like a Fiero cannonball lmao that would be cool! Well again great job Fiero Forever man!
------------------ If it works take it apart and find out why
Have you cleaned the IAC? My current daily driver is an 84 SE which sat for 9 years in storage and I just bought all new sensors for the $$ its cheap insurance eliminates a lot of guess work. The lady who owned it had bought it new in 84 and babied it till she passed away last year. I told her every time I saw her I would buy it that a car like that should not be in storage and she promised if she ever sold it I would get first refusal. Well, when she passed her Husband told me if I wanted to pay the remaining storage fee I could have it. $200 later and it was in my shop. I am in Bangor what car show are you going to in this area? Maybe I will join ya all the mainahs on PFF should get together and do like a Fiero cannonball lmao that would be cool! Well again great job Fiero Forever man!
Bullshizz! Cause I was talking to that same old lady and she said I could have the dang car! She even went on to tell me that some crazy dude from Bangor was trying to intimidate her into giving him the car!! She then said she was thinking of calling the police. Serious! Man I'm calling the Bangor PD right now!!!
Still april 1st? lol Kidding congrats! Another Mainer? YESSSSS! Lets do it up!
Sorry I'm going all OT. Lemme go read your advice again! Lol
The MAP sensor is the number one sensor the ECM uses to determine the mixture. So solve the MAP problem before worrying about the O2 problem.
First thing to check on your MAP sensor is vacuum lines. A cracked vacuum line could be causing both problems. So make sure your vacuum source is good. Then if your MAP problem still exists swap MAP sensors from a different Fiero (engine doesn't matter) and see if you have a bad sensor. Finally if none of these work, you can look at wiring to the MAP.
After getting the MAP sensor working properly see if the O2 rich problem re-occurs.
Ok gotta chance to do some testing a bit today. Unplugged the line under the MAP sensor and felt good suction there. The check engine light immediately came on and it started running real rough, almost died, momma shut it off. I then pulled the MAP and looked at it... lol I have no idea how this thing works. Hooked it all back up and it seemed to run a bit better. Even idled a bit lower. Dunno.
1. Anyway to bench test the MAP sensor?
Next item. The line that runs from the canister to the fuel tank, regretfully I forgot to check for blockage. I disconnected the rubber hose at the canister and blew with all my smoke filled lungs power, and could feel and hear that sound you make when you blow in a straw...lol sorry best discription I could come up with.
2. How, if possible, do I check the canister to make sure it is not overfilling?
Other then that easy day, momma put her interior back together and drivers door panel. Both headlights work great!! Man friggin car is nice and clean! Can't believe it. Stereo sounds great. Sat inside and chilled with momma for a bit, listened to the radio...Very nice. Call me crazy but the 87 seems roomier then my 86, maybe it's just me though. Gotta read up cause I forgot how them pieces on the rear bumper go on. Perhaps the Haynes will at the least cover this?
Thanks everyone and hopefully you have a great night! Andrew
See my cave: Dis and 700tbi in 4cyl engine section emissions in general engine section ECM section
"2. How, if possible, do I check the canister to make sure it is not overfilling?" you can't overfill the EVAP canister. Liquid fuel is poison to the canister in the 87-88 uses the expansion tank to protect it.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
1. The alternator IS charging the syatem at this time. Tested and read 14.6volts DC at the battery during idle. Nice!
2. The idle speed has reset itself or come out of its funk or wth ever. It's idling at around 1000 or so rpm, nicely. Sounds like a nice sewing machine. Smooth.
3. Installed a new battery and let it idle for awhile, the temp guage seems to be functioning normally.
4. Pulled codes again and they are all gone. NO codes came up! We let it idle for about 10 minutes and I was holding the throttle open at around 2500 rpm for periods. No codes!!
Next is brakes brakes brakes... No fun IMO. Anyone know of a good write up on rebuilding brakes please feel free to share? Please?
Edit to add pic of the left over bits...lol mostly brake parts i think. Some fasteners. Nothing major I hope!
Some, must be around 19 year old, motor oil and god knows what else...
Whats left of the used car dealership sticker thats still on the passanger side window. We found bits of the window paper but its all broken down and falling apart.
Amazing interior... Wow. Some peoples junk huh?
Thanks for all the help. Thanks for reading.
Andrew
[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 04-03-2012).]
Whats the loud ticking? It's tough to tell but I think its the injector. Anyway take a look and listen please. Let me know what you think. Don't mind me in the vid, I'm still giddy!
Thanks and have a great day. Any advice or tips are very welcome!
The ticking sounds suspiciously like an exhaust tick. You said it sounds like it's coming from the area of the throttle body. Could be a leak at the EGR port or the EGR valve itself leaking. Hope it isn't the manifold gasket. I would double check the exhaust manifold first. It's leaking at a single port. When the engine is cold you should be able to feel the air puffing wherever the leak is. The injector is more of a buzzing tick and will get louder if you take the top off the filter canister.
On the brakes. DO they work at all. Unless you are going to change the master cylinder don't drain it dry. I would empty the reservoir down to where there is just a smidgen of fluid in each port. Then refill with clean fluid. Go to the left rear and loosen the line from the caliper (or the bleeder if you can get it loose without twisting it off). Then have someone pump the brake slowly til you get clean fluid. In this you will need to refill the reservoir each time the pedal is depressed. Next do the right rear the same way. Then next is the right front followed by the left front. ( No I didn't get the sequence wrong on the rear. If you follow the brake lines from the reservoir, the left rear is the farthest from the reservoir)
edit: Just got back from work and reread what I wrote. When you are doing each wheel you will need to tighten the line or bleeder each time before the pedal is released just like you would if you are bleeding the brakes. It could be done by gravity but it would take a lot of time . A hand vacuum pump on the bleeder nipple would do it also.
You can clean up the disks with a wire brush on a drill. If there is no pitting and the outer ridge is not big then they can be used. if there is pitting then you have to have a brake or machine shop turn them down enough to eliminate the pits.(Provided the disks are thick enough for turning down).
Do the calipers release okay? Does the ebrake hold and release??? ( Probably not on the ebrake after sitting for so long.)
You probably should consider replacing all four brake hoses. They are not cheap to buy, but those old ones may be brittle.
Ogre's cave has a lot of good information about the brake operation.
[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 04-05-2012).]
The ticking sounds suspiciously like an exhaust tick. You said it sounds like it's coming from the area of the throttle body. Could be a leak at the EGR port or the EGR valve itself leaking. Hope it isn't the manifold gasket. I would double check the exhaust manifold first. It's leaking at a single port. When the engine is cold you should be able to feel the air puffing wherever the leak is. The injector is more of a buzzing tick and will get louder if you take the top off the filter canister.
On the brakes. DO they work at all. Unless you are going to change the master cylinder don't drain it dry. I would empty the reservoir down to where there is just a smidgen of fluid in each port. Then refill with clean fluid. Go to the left rear and loosen the line from the caliper (or the bleeder if you can get it loose without twisting it off). Then have someone pump the brake slowly til you get clean fluid. In this you will need to refill the reservoir each time the pedal is depressed. Next do the right rear the same way. Then next is the right front followed by the left front. ( No I didn't get the sequence wrong on the rear. If you follow the brake lines from the reservoir, the left rear is the farthest from the reservoir)
edit: Just got back from work and reread what I wrote. When you are doing each wheel you will need to tighten the line or bleeder each time before the pedal is released just like you would if you are bleeding the brakes. It could be done by gravity but it would take a lot of time . A hand vacuum pump on the bleeder nipple would do it also.
You can clean up the disks with a wire brush on a drill. If there is no pitting and the outer ridge is not big then they can be used. if there is pitting then you have to have a brake or machine shop turn them down enough to eliminate the pits.(Provided the disks are thick enough for turning down).
Do the calipers release okay? Does the ebrake hold and release??? ( Probably not on the ebrake after sitting for so long.)
You probably should consider replacing all four brake hoses. They are not cheap to buy, but those old ones may be brittle.
Ogre's cave has a lot of good information about the brake operation.
TY 2Far. Long story short. When we picked car up we removed rear brake pads so we could roll the car. Someone has been pushing the brake pedal since then. Could been me, probably was.
So, I was able to get the fronts caliper pistons to go back in easily using a C-clamp.
The rears, I can pull the E-brake lever on the caliper and see the piston moving in and out. So perhaps the piston is not seized in it's bore.
How the hell do I get the rear pistons to go back in? I have a disc brake piston tool to turn it back in if needed. I tried a C-clamp and it didn't seem to wanna go in. The Haynes says to use a C-clamp...
Ahh good old Haynes manual...Off to do some digging in the Ogre's cave.
Got it! Man Ogre dude knows his shizz!! TYVM Ogre dude for all you do!!
I have no idea how it works, but his technique does. I tried spinning it in, I tried just pressing it in, then I pulled the E-brake lever on the caliper. Put my C-clamp and socket on and walla, dang thing went right in!!
Unfortunately I don't have new pads on hand, yet. Perhaps this weekend. I think all four calipers are fine! Wow!!
Yep Ogre's got a good site. Been using it for many years. If you have an Autozone nearby they usually have their "Life time" pads available in the store....well at least they did a few years ago. Haven't bought any recently. Did you get the rotors to clean up okay?
edit--- You may want to start soaking the caliper bleeder nipples with PB Blaster etc. They may not loosen up even with that but it's worth a try. Too bad people never seem to use anti seize on the threads.
[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 04-06-2012).]
Originally posted by 2farnorth: edit--- You may want to start soaking the caliper bleeder nipples with PB Blaster etc. They may not loosen up even with that but it's worth a try. Too bad people never seem to use anti seize on the threads.
[/QUOTE Good info and after soaking for a bit just before you try to loosen them hit them with a little heat from a plumbers torch just be careful I got all mine loose except for one. The one that wouldn't budge I just cut off clean with a cutting wheel and used a tool I picked up from Lowe's called GRABBIT it is by far the best broken screw removal tool I have found yet! I was able to get all my rubber lines at a local parts store for $16 each and replaced them I have found that rubber hoses no matter how good they may look are very prone to collapsing! I am going to order the stainless braided hose kit from the Fiero Store. They do not swell like a rubber line does I know on my last Fiero they made the pedal feel alot stiffer! I then proceeded to carefully take my calipers apart wire wheel everything and put it all back together and as stated USE NEVER SEIZE!!! the high temp copper stuff I even put it around the piston under the dust seal in on and around the sliding bolts and behind the pads as well cheep insurance for the next brake job! Good luck and I hope you dont brake anything lmao
------------------ If it works take it apart and find out why
Pshew, just dodged an Autozone bullet! called to order brake pads and dude on phone says, "That's weird the front and rear brake pads are the same, I have never seen that before, ever."
Went straight to the puter to look it up and sure enough dude was wrong, one number off on the rear part number. Called back and straightend it out. Minor hiccup, but coulda been ugly if I tried to fit the wrong pads in the rears...
on starting fluid. Starts right up and runs nicely. It's trying to run it sounds like. Seems like a fuel starvation issue. I'm just glad it turns over and runs at least! AWESOME! I gott figure out the fuel issue. Doesn't seem to be getting gas. The fuel pump is priming everytime, even after cranking we can hear the fuel pump running for a second or two. 
