Ok guys so for the last month or so I have been thinking about a Honda motor swap in my '84 Base. Everyone tells me to do the 3800 SC, but that's too common. I want to do something that not everyone does. The reason I want a Honda motor is simply because a GSR that is built and one third the weight of the 3800 SC can produce more power. They have the best power to weight ratios, and can take a beating, are cheap, and easy to work on. I originally wanted to put a built GSR in it with a small turbo, but the work for that would be nuts, all custom mounts, and the wiring harness would be impossible. After a little thinking and talking to some buddies of mine, I came to the comclusion that a J Series motor would be best. The 2004-2007 Saturn Vue used a Honda motor. That's what I think would be best. It's a Honda motor with the setup for a GM vehicle. The J35A3 produces the same power as the larger 3800 SC with 30 less ft'lbs of torque, but is lighter and I will build it up to handle more anyways and put a small turbo on it. It also comes with a 5 speed transmission. I want to hear anyone's feedback on what I may run into along the way, and also would like to know if it is possible for me to run cables for my shift linkage.

The 5 speed transmission it comes with, is the Honda H5 automatic.

It doesn't have the same bell pattern as the F23 does, which is the manual transmission that came behind the Ecotec in the Vue.

edit: Also, I don't think it's actually lighter than the 3800. From what I've found, a J32 weighs around 560 lbs. The 3800 weighs about 450 lbs.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 08-02-2014).]

I find it very hard to believe a J motor is that heavy. Internet says about 450 with trans.

http://www.v6performance.ne...5-engine-weight.html

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I find it very hard to believe a J motor is that heavy. Internet says about 450 with trans. http://www.v6performance.ne...5-engine-weight.html

http://www.nsxprime.com/for...ewfull=1#post1794826

That's with trans and accessories. A 3800 swap with trans and accessories will weigh about the same. A little more, but not 100+ lbs difference, I don't think.

Remember a J motor is Honda, and Honda produces aluminum blocks

quote Originally posted by Billy2M4: Remember a J motor is Honda, and Honda produces aluminum blocks

Yes, but it's also an OHC engine. Which means the heads are larger. Aluminum is also weaker than steel, even though it's lighter, so this tends to get made up for by more aluminum in some areas than there would be in a steel block, and/or addition of steel to the aluminum block, such as cylinder sleeves being steel. The internals such as crank and rods also tend to be steel, while pistons may be steel or aluminum (not sure which the J series used).

Blocks alone, the J block is probably lighter, yes. Fully assembled with trans and accessories though, you're not going to see a huge weight difference between the J engine and the 3800SC. The NA is a bit lighter as it has a plastic intake instead of a big aluminum blower housing with rotating steel inside it.

There's a lot more to consider when comparing the weight of engines, than just the material of the block/heads. It's a common misconception that one engine may be significantly lighter than another, simply because it's made of aluminum, and the other is cast iron. But even aluminum 4 cylinder engines can start getting heavy when you throw on accessories, turbo, intercooler, etc…

Yes, I know this is an old thread, but I was curious to know if anyone on PFF has ever ended up doing this swap.

It has now been almost 10 years since GM stopped using the L66 (J35A3) engine and its matching Honda H5 5-speed automatic transmission, so they must be cheaper and more abundant in salvage yards now. And whether the L66 is lighter than the L67 (3800SC) or not, it should be just as reliable, more fuel efficient, and run on regular gas to boot. And hopefully, Honda's H5 automatic won't have any of the bugs that plagued it's 4-speed predecessor.

So has anyone ever tried to install this powertrain in a Fiero? I'm especially curious about the electronic side of things, mainly what's needed for the ECM and TCM to work properly in a Fiero. Did Saturn use Honda's TCM and ECM, or did they opt to use GM components reprogrammed to work with Honda mechanicals?

I found this interesting article about swapping a Honda J-series engine into a Civic:

http://www.superstreetonlin...-series-engine-swap/

In it, they mention a provider of plug&play parts that make the Civic swap simpler:

http://www.arizonaperforman...ports.com/parts.html
http://www.arizonaperforman...ts.com/services.html

Since they do custom installations, asking for a custom harness for a Fiero might not be much of a stretch.

[This message has been edited by Hidalgo (edited 12-23-2016).]

Hi Guy, I've been thinking about this swap for years.
When I did my G6 3500 swap, I had been looking to do this swap, but eventually I found a new G6 3500 engine and I did this swap.
Every time I drive my honda v6, I still dream of making a swap with this engine. One day maybe.

The J engine is the same engine used in the Acura TL, and the Honda minivan. (Yes... the minivan has the "good" heads, etc.)
It's becoming "a thing" for Miata swaps. There is even aftermarket ECM support for it, now.
http://www.superfastmiatas.com/index.html

quote Originally posted by Raydar: There is even aftermarket ECM support for it, now. http://www.superfastmiatas.com/index.html

By that I assume you mean Honda's J motor ECM and not Saturn's, right? I'm asking because I have done some more research and it seems like GM used one of their own Motorola-made ECMs for the Saturn Vue, with their own connectors, while Hondas with J motors had Honda ECMs with Honda-type connectors.

quote Originally posted by Hidalgo: By that I assume you mean Honda's J motor ECM and not Saturn's, right? I'm asking because I have done some more research and it seems like GM used one of their own Motorola-made ECMs for the Saturn Vue, with their own connectors, while Hondas with J motors had Honda ECMs with Honda-type connectors.

You can use an aftermarket ECM like an AEM Infinity, Haltech Elite, or Megasquirt to control the J series engines, I think is what Raydar was saying by "aftermarket ECM support."

quote Originally posted by dobey: You can use an aftermarket ECM like an AEM Infinity, Haltech Elite, or Megasquirt to control the J series engines, I think is what Raydar was saying by "aftermarket ECM support."

It's actually the AEM Series 2, not the Infinity ECM. Yes, I did see it on AEM's website, and at the Miata link that Raydar provided. Problem is, their plug & play Series 2 ECM for the Honda J motor won't control the 5-speed H5 automatic transmission. It will only work with a manual, and the article I found above says that the 6-speed manual that fits the J motor's bellhousing is hard to find. The ones I have seen on car-parts.com have very high mileage and are expensive.

[This message has been edited by Hidalgo (edited 12-24-2016).]

I was referring to the AEM piece. Since the ECM is going to have to be swapped, anyway, I was thinking that it was going to be a lot of trouble to adapt the GM ECM, just for its own sake. Of course, if you want to keep the associated 5 speed auto tranny, then it may be a necessity.
Most of the Miata folks are retaining the Miata manual tranny, OTOH.

03 J30A4 6-speed Manual Dropout doesn't seem too badly priced to me. For a complete dropout, it's about the same price I paid for my LS4 and F40 trans together.

quote Originally posted by dobey: 03 J30A4 6-speed Manual Dropout doesn't seem too badly priced to me. For a complete dropout, it's about the same price I paid for my LS4 and F40 trans together.

Wow, that does look like a good deal. And that 2003 Honda Accord J30A4 variant was good for 242hp, still in L67 territory, but in an engine-transmission combo that was designed to work together from the factory, unlike an L67-F40 or LS4-F40 combo.

[This message has been edited by Hidalgo (edited 12-24-2016).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: The J engine is the same engine used in the Acura TL, and the Honda minivan. (Yes... the minivan has the "good" heads, etc.) It's becoming "a thing" for Miata swaps. There is even aftermarket ECM support for it, now. http://www.superfastmiatas.com/index.html

We have a Honda guy at our shop who said he replaced many engines in the Honda Odyssey. Apparently the heavier, loaded, higher trim level vans used cylinder deactivation to make up the mpg difference. When cruising they closed the back bank valves essentially making every stroke a compression stroke and after so many miles it would blow the rings out causing high oil consumption. So the base model was actually better lol! I'm not knocking the j series at all, my friend had a TL and it was bad ass, just some useless info for you.

quote Originally posted by 88cryan: ... just some useless info for you.

Indeed...

Actually, that's the first negative I've ever heard about that engine. And good to know.
I didn't know that cylinder deactivation was even available on the J series. Or at least I didn't pay attention.
I wouldn't opt for that engine, anyway, and that's yet another reason to avoid it.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-26-2016).]

Cylinder deactivation is pretty common on most honda v6's , GM v8's and ford and chrysler v6 and v8's .We have owned 2 honda v6 vehicles with this system and have a lot of friends with it too .I do not know any one that has had a honda v6 engine failure . The engine in the saturn vue has always interested me , but I have ignored it because I thought they were all wheel drive .Trying to turn an all wheel drive in to 2wd unless a kit was available would be over my head .My local wrecker has one that looks good enough to drive off the lot right now .Never asked him what is wrong with it though .

quote Originally posted by wftb: ...The engine in the saturn vue has always interested me , but I have ignored it because I thought they were all wheel drive .Trying to turn an all wheel drive in to 2wd unless a kit was available would be over my head .My local wrecker has one that looks good enough to drive off the lot right now .Never asked him what is wrong with it though .

A lot of the Saturn Vues had CVTs. (Not sure which engines/drivetrains.)
A friend of mine had a Saturn "thing" going on for a bit, and discovered that the CVTs were a huge point of failure, and prohibitively expensive to replace.
Some of the people (googled a few forums) reportedly replaced the CVT with the 5 speed Aisin automatic. Obviously not the Honda stuff, however.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: A lot of the Saturn Vues had CVTs. (Not sure which engines/drivetrains.) A friend of mine had a Saturn "thing" going on for a bit, and discovered that the CVTs were a huge point of failure, and prohibitively expensive to replace. Some of the people (googled a few forums) reportedly replaced the CVT with the 5 speed Aisin automatic. Obviously not the Honda stuff, however.

None of those transmissions were ever available with the Honda V6 in the Saturn Vue. The J35A3 (L66) was always connected to the Honda H5 automatic, and no manual was available. Furthermore, not all V6-powered Vues were AWD.

Raydar, what do you have against this engine? Saturn and Pontiac were both killed by GM around the same time. Furthermore, the Saturn Vue was the last GM vehicle with a plastic body, while the Fiero was the first. That would make such a swap way less sacrilegious in Poncho fandom than using any other Honda engine.

[This message has been edited by Hidalgo (edited 04-05-2017).]

quote Originally posted by Hidalgo: None of those transmissions were ever available with the Honda V6 in the Saturn Vue. The J35A3 (L66) was always connected to the Honda H5 automatic, and no manual was available. Furthermore, not all V6-powered Vues were AWD.

I just wasn't sure if the Vue in question had the Honda engine or not. Merely sharing the CVT story, just in case.

quote Raydar, what do you have against this engine? Saturn and Pontiac were both killed by GM around the same time. Furthermore, the Saturn Vue was the last GM vehicles with a plastic body, while the Fiero was the first. That would make such a swap way less sacrilegious in Poncho fandom than using any other Honda engine.

I've got nothing against the "J" engine. I want one in my Miata.
Seems a lot less sacrilegious than an LS1, if we want to go there.

I think it would make an interesting swap into a Fiero, too. Not sure of the cost vs benefit, but one could certainly do a lot worse.
Please document the swap if you decide to go for it. I'd love to see it work.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-26-2016).]

quote Originally posted by wftb: Cylinder deactivation is pretty common on most honda v6's , GM v8's and ford and chrysler v6 and v8's .We have owned 2 honda v6 vehicles with this system and have a lot of friends with it too .I do not know any one that has had a honda v6 engine failure .

They might not have had a problem but there was a class action lawsuit that Honda settled. It covered 2008-12 Accord, 2008-13 Odyssey, 2009-13 Pilot, and 2010-12 Accord Crosstour. There is also a TSB #11-033 for excessive oil consumption. GM system is no better and has TSB's and lifter problems. I have no idea about Chrysler's system.