I'm doing a steering column swap in my Fiero, to a modern column that supports steering wheel buttons, VATS in the ignition switch, and looks better than the 30 year old Fiero styling. What I have is (I think) an 07 Monte Carlo steering column. It came with turn signal/wiper switch, and the ignition switch on the column. The key came in the switch, but it is bent (and the Chevy brand). I've also acquired an ignition switch, and a set of keys, and other lock cylinders, for an ~07 Grand Prix as well, which has the ignition switch in the dash. Due to the design differences, it appears I can't just pull the core cylinder out of the GP switch and plug it into the Monte column. It looks like I am going to have to swap the tumblers to be able to use the Pontiac keys in the column switch.
The problem I'm having, is that I can't seem to find any info to further disassemble the cylinders further than I already have, so that I can swap the tumblers. Does anyone on here know how to tear these two cylinders all the way down, to swap the tumblers?
Would really appreciate any knowledge about these cylinders being shared. Thanks!
I am not familiar with the new ignition and haven't seen one even so this is for the older ones like our Fieros, if your lock looks similar it should be the same. on the outside of the ignition cylinder itself there should be a cap that looks like a thin peace of sheet metal, that's all it really is. Pry that off with a small thin bladed flat screwdriver and be careful as everything underneath it is springs and the little pins that fit the key cuts. take each spring out and set them to the side so you don't lose them. Then take the pins out one hole at a time and lay them out just the way they came out. there should be 2 pins in each hole and as I said they match up with your key cuts so don't mix them up. a peace of wide tape turned upside down is a good thing to set them on and keep them in order and lined up. now do the same to the other lock and save everything the same way. now just swap them around if they are the same but make sure you put the pins in the right holes in the right order or your key is not going to work when you are done. then put the springs back on and then the cap and squeeze it back in place.
to be honest if you are not real good with tiny things you might just want to take both of them to a locksmith and have him do it, it probably won't take him 10 min.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Yeah, I've found some general info about lock tumbler swapping, and it says basically what you just said. I do electronics stuff as a hobby as well, so I'm not worried about the small things.
The main problem is that the cylinder for the in-dash switch in the Pontiacs, has an outer casing, and the actual cylinder is then inside that. I can't find how to get the casing off, to get to the actual main cylinder portion.
The in-dash cylinder looks like this:
But I can't see how to pull #3 in that picture, out of #6.
This didn't solve my problem, but did get me pointed in the right direction. Thanks.
There's a pin (#8 in the part diagram I previously posted), which needs to be pushed in, while the cylinder is pulled out. It takes a very small flat head screwdriver, and a little agility to get between the pin and the cylinder wall, to push the pin in, so the cylinder can be pulled out. But I managed to get it done, so I can finally swap the tumblers.
So, I think I might have a slight problem. The column cylinder has only 7 tumblers, while the dash cylinder has 8. I swapped them over, and left one out. The key insertion works fine, and I can turn the key through most of the positions after inserting it back into the column switch housing. However, it's quite difficult to turn the key all the way back to the release position, so that I can remove the key. I wonder might be causing that.
So, I think I might have a slight problem. The column cylinder has only 7 tumblers, while the dash cylinder has 8. I swapped them over, and left one out. The key insertion works fine, and I can turn the key through most of the positions after inserting it back into the column switch housing. However, it's quite difficult to turn the key all the way back to the release position, so that I can remove the key. I wonder might be causing that.
Hard for me to say as I said I am not really familiar with the new ones, the ones I am familiar with are the old ones that actually had pins instead of wafers like the new ones have, but they all work basically the same way. You may have a problem with the switch moving back because of the dreaded ignition from hell being replaced by the recalled one, hard to say with all the BS that's been going on at GM as of late.
Not sure what you have but how did the ignition work before you changed it around, did it work smoothly?
There are so many tiny parts in those things it really is a pain in the ass to work on them and really easy to screw something up as all it takes is one little part slightly out of place by a fraction of an inch. I would be very carful with this as the last thing you want is for the ignition to not work for you down the road at some rest stop in the middle of no where. Make sure when you are done everything works very smoothly and no hang-ups.
Without being there it is really hard for me to try and help with the sticking problem, try disassembling the entire thing again and before reassembling coating everything with a thin coating of graphite or some other lube? if you can figure out what is causing the hang-up that may be all that needs to be lubed.
This video may be of some help, there are very few on you tube on the ignition rekeying itself, most are about the recall.
Swapped which side of the cylinder the tumblers are on, but it didn't seem to make a difference. The key turns pretty freely between the accy/on/run/start positions, and there is a loud "click" when going between accy/on/run positions. I'm pretty sure that click is the switch itself though and nothing to do with the tumblers, as it's turning freely between those positions. It's only when pushing the whole cylinder in to turn it back to the off position to remove the key, where it is stuck and won't turn backwards.
So not sure why that isn't working well, but I'm pretty confident it's not related to the tumblers, at this point.
I'll try swapping the old tumblers back in and try the old key, but I don't think it will change anything.
Swapped which side of the cylinder the tumblers are on, but it didn't seem to make a difference. The key turns pretty freely between the accy/on/run/start positions, and there is a loud "click" when going between accy/on/run positions. I'm pretty sure that click is the switch itself though and nothing to do with the tumblers, as it's turning freely between those positions. It's only when pushing the whole cylinder in to turn it back to the off position to remove the key, where it is stuck and won't turn backwards.
So not sure why that isn't working well, but I'm pretty confident it's not related to the tumblers, at this point.
I'll try swapping the old tumblers back in and try the old key, but I don't think it will change anything.
I take it then the old key in the switch worked smoothly before you started this? If it works smoothly after you did something and need to figure it out, even if it doesn't work smoothly then you still need to figure out what you did no mater what to make it stick in just that place.
sorry I really haven't been of much help but at least I have kept the thread alive, maybe someone else might see it and know more than ether of us, because obviously we don't know enough.
Originally posted by 84fiero123: I take it then the old key in the switch worked smoothly before you started this? If it works smoothly after you did something and need to figure it out, even if it doesn't work smoothly then you still need to figure out what you did no mater what to make it stick in just that place.
sorry I really haven't been of much help but at least I have kept the thread alive, maybe someone else might see it and know more than ether of us, because obviously we don't know enough.
Steve
I think I've figured it out now. There's a sort of cylindrical piece on the back side of the key housing, that looks like a solenoid. Looking at parts diagrams, this appears to be the Transmission Shift Lock Control device, which apparently prevents removing the key from the car, when it's not in park. Damn automatic transmission safety features.
I put the original tumblers back in and it had the same problem. Then with a bit of fiddling, discovered that pressing that solenoid switch in, allowed me to remove the key. So the cylinder with the new tumblers in it was working fine.
Now I've got to go to find a tiny external torx socket, so I can get rid of the stupid lock.
I think I've figured it out now. There's a sort of cylindrical piece on the back side of the key housing, that looks like a solenoid. Looking at parts diagrams, this appears to be the Transmission Shift Lock Control device, which apparently prevents removing the key from the car, when it's not in park. Damn automatic transmission safety features.
I put the original tumblers back in and it had the same problem. Then with a bit of fiddling, discovered that pressing that solenoid switch in, allowed me to remove the key. So the cylinder with the new tumblers in it was working fine.
Now I've got to go to find a tiny external torx socket, so I can get rid of the stupid lock.
Ah ha sort of like the tab for standard cars to get the key out only a solenoid nice find. I would never have thought of that sitting here.
see if a 12 point socket that size will work, if you can find a 12 point socket that small. Be careful it doesn't turn your ignition into one of the ones they are recalling, is easy to go into off from a bump in the road.
Good luck.
you have a PM
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 07-31-2014).]
Originally posted by 84fiero123: see if a 12 point socket that size will work, if you can find a 12 point socket that small. Be careful it doesn't turn your ignition into one of the ones they are recalling, is easy to go into off from a bump in the road.
The recall is only for about 6 models across the entire GM product line over an 8 year period. None of those products are the Monte Carlo (where the steering column is from), or the Grand Prix (that my in-dash switches are from). The switch doesn't pop into Off position. It just may pop out of Run position while driving (so the engine will shut off, but radio and everything else will stay on).
The switch and cylinder in my column feels pretty solid. I don't have any worries about this possibly happening on my setup. I'll just need to get the bits for the auto trans removed, so it will work properly for me.
