Main things I want to know between the two: -Difficulty in actually doing the swap -Which one has better reliability? -Does the SFI get better gas mileage? If so what's the difference? -Last but not least, horsepower, torque, and after market equipment.
This might have been answered before but it's always interesting to hear about what people's personally experience is with these two engines.
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
The camaro/firebird 3.4 is the easier swap. Since it uses the same iron heads that our 2.8 came with, it's practically a bolt in. The 3400 SFI uses a newer style aluminum head and the accessory bolt holes are in different location which makes it a more challenging swap.
Electronics on the 3400 will be more difficult. The 3.4 can use the existing Fiero wiring and electronics. The 3400 will need an OBDII computer and custom wiring harness. (Some may be able to use the Fiero ECM, but you're still looking at custom wiring to make it work).
Both have been done, so they're both options. The 3.4 will be easier. The 3400 is a better overall engine.
3400 has no distributor. If you use the Fiero ECM with the 3.4 you have to retain it. 3400 fires sequentially. The 3.4 batch fires all the injectors at the same time. 3400 can detect individual cylinder misfires. The 3.4 can't 3400 has knock sensors. 3.4 with a Fiero ECM does not.
Better ? Easier ? For my money, a 3400 BLOCK, different pistons, Fiero heads (Ported), and Fiero( ported) intake & exhaust setup. No re wiring, has a Roller Cam, very simple and reliable. relatively cheap. been there, done that
Originally posted by Formula88: The 3400 will need an OBDII computer and custom wiring harness.
The 3400 will run just fine with OBDI with a 7730, but yes, it will still need to be wired. It's no worse than doing a 7730 swap on a stock 2.8 though. You won't get SFI, per cylinder misfire, etc... but there is already a base tune ready to go over at WOT-TECH.
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Originally posted by zzzhuh:
- ... and after market equipment.
There are a handful of parts available for the flat tappet motors and a few cams still available, but the Gen III 60* engines have a couple of very good vendors for performance parts.
There is an OBD1 PCM that will run the 3400 on SFI, and it looks very similar to the 1227730 ECM.
It is the 94-95 Olds Ciera / Buick Century 3100 SFI - 16196387 SERV NO PCM and it can also control a 4T60-E. It uses a MAF sensor (no MAP), as well as the 2nd crank sensor (24x) that comes on the 3400 SFI V6 LA1 engines as well as the cam sensor.
That having been said, by the time you run all those extra wires for the extra crank and cam sensors as well as DIS, you might as well just upgrade to the better OBD2 PCM and call it a day. Way more aftermarket support (not only for tuning but also for scanning and being able to get and use aftermarket scan-gauges with it, etc).
The speed density 1227730 ECM isn't bad but it does have its limitations and is easily outclassed by a 1998-05 generation OBD2 PCM and the enhanced capabilities that newer system brings to the table.
------------------ OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com
There are a handful of parts available for the flat tappet motors and a few cams still available, but the Gen III 60* engines have a couple of very good vendors for performance parts.
Carbon, I can always count on you to post very knowledgeable information, I do however recall reading awhile back that you were saying GM still makes a 3400 Long Block? Is that the 3.4PR or the 3400SFI? And is this still available?
3400 has no distributor. If you use the Fiero ECM with the 3.4 you have to retain it. 3400 fires sequentially. The 3.4 batch fires all the injectors at the same time. 3400 can detect individual cylinder misfires. The 3.4 can't 3400 has knock sensors. 3.4 with a Fiero ECM does not.
Very good to know. The 3400 seems like the more sophisticated engine but at the same time, it almost sounds about as in-depth as just doing a 3800SC swap. I do however have an opportunity to buy a 3800N/A engine. Is this engine worth it if I can get engine,trans,ecu and the wiring for $1500? Granted, I would rather stick with my 4 speed.
I do however recall reading awhile back that you were saying GM still makes a 3400 Long Block? Is that the 3.4PR or the 3400SFI? And is this still available?
GM used to sell the HT 3.4 V6 crate engine. It was an iron-head V6 meant as an upgrade for an S10's 2.8 but would also work in a Fiero. P/N: 12363230. gmpartsdirect.com says it has been discontinued and is no longer available from GM.
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Originally posted by zzzhuh:
The 3400 seems like the more sophisticated engine but at the same time, it almost sounds about as in-depth as just doing a 3800SC swap. I do however have an opportunity to buy a 3800N/A engine. Is this engine worth it if I can get engine,trans,ecu and the wiring for $1500? Granted, I would rather stick with my 4 speed.
You are correct, doing an aluminum head pushrod 3400 V6 swap is going to be just as involved as doing a 3800 swap. And the highest power output 3400 SFI V6 LA1 factory engine only produced 185hp.
A 3800 Series 2 N/A engine produces 200-205hp and you can buy just about everything you need from a number of vendors on here to do the swap yourself.
$1500 is too expensive for a 3800 N/A, auto trans, and PCM combo. That's what I would expect to pay for a 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine, 4T65-E HD auto trans, and PCM/wiring combo that had around 100,000 miles on it or so. Price should be at least $500 less for an N/A engine, IMHO - unless it has super low mileage on it.
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 06-11-2014).]
You are correct, doing an aluminum head pushrod 3400 V6 swap is going to be just as involved as doing a 3800 swap. And the highest power output 3400 SFI V6 LA1 engine only produced 185hp.
i slightly disagree... the clutch/flywheel (if going manual) doesnt need to be special done, and the mounts (minus the dogbone) can all be retained from the fiero (if staying with a manual). but yes, the fuel, wiring, coolant will all need to be re-worked. if going with a newer auto, then itll be just as much work.
3400SFI turbo = gods chariot if you can keep it running... I miss mine
yea, wish i had the $ to take that thing from you when you sold it... oh well, im loving my 88 i have now, itll be epic when i move my LX9 to it and add some boost... whatever decade that willendup being.
yea, wish i had the $ to take that thing from you when you sold it... oh well, im loving my 88 i have now, itll be epic when i move my LX9 to it and add some boost... whatever decade that willendup being.
No legit my dad disagrees with me because he thinks I would be dead by now if I still had it but that car was the most fun I've ever had keeping my cloths on..
Also as far as everyone is talking with OBDI and II the other alternative is to run a stand alone ECU on it. mine was on a haltech.
No legit my dad disagrees with me because he thinks I would be dead by now if I still had it but that car was the most fun I've ever had keeping my cloths on..
Also as far as everyone is talking with OBDI and II the other alternative is to run a stand alone ECU on it. mine was on a haltech.
woulda changed it to obd2 :P. Anyway enough of hijacking this thread!
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: $1500 is too expensive for a 3800 N/A, auto trans, and PCM combo. That's what I would expect to pay for a 3800 Series 2 Supercharged engine, 4T65-E HD auto trans, and PCM/wiring combo that had around 100,000 miles on it or so. Price should be at least $500 less for an N/A engine, IMHO - unless it has super low mileage on it.
THIS was A+ stuff I figured it was a bit much. I had a chance in getting a 3.8SC with 7,000 documented miles on it a few months back, but unfortunately I didn't have the cash at the time . As far as the difference between a 3.8N/A swap vs a 3.8SC swap, is it any different as far as price and difficulty goes? I would imagine it being pretty much the same but I feel like the SC might add cost.
" I do however have an opportunity to buy a 3800N/A engine. Is this engine worth it if I can get engine,trans,ecu and the wiring for $1500." ? That's about $1000 Too Much !
