The die has been cast. I hope they were successful.
edit to add: I hope I was wrong in my assessment. If President Trump is successful in destroying Iran's nuclear capability and that brings them to the negotiation table, then we are all better off for it.
The unfortunate truth is that while Iran's current nuclear capability may have been destroyed, unless a leadership, cultural and attitude change occurs , then that capability has only been delayed. How long is up to the people of Iran. In our history, it's pretty obvious that unless the offensive nation is totally defeated and those changes are made, then and only then will the people step up.
Any attack or reaction of aggression should cause an overwhelming reaction from both Israel and the US. Let's not forget those open borders we had during the Biden Administration. How many terrorist cells came across? The ain't over till the fat lady sings.
Apparently we have a rather rickety cease-fire, which I'm reading that both sides have already broken. Let's see how this goes. Last night I was a bit hopeful. This morning, not so much.
And even if it holds, it still leaves us in the same position. How do we verify that their nuclear program is in fact not still working towards a weapon? They certainly are not going to hand us the keys. I don't think.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-24-2025).]
Originally posted by Raydar: Apparently we have a rather rickety cease-fire, which I'm reading that both sides have already broken. Let's see how this goes. Last night I was a bit hopeful. This morning, not so much.
Trump, at a press gathering as he was leaving the White House for the NATO summit, mentioned he was not happy with Iran and Israel, in a stern voice. He is not giving up. For the sake of peace. He is working also for peace between Russia and Ukraine. He stopped the scuffle between India and Pakistan, both nuclear powers. He also started the Abraham Accords of which two Middle East neighbors of Israel was enacted. With the neighbors formally recognizing Israel right to exist where it is located. Trade between them was started as well as allowing flights over air spaces.
He deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. Obama got it when he got in office before he did anything.
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Originally posted by Raydar: And even if it holds, it still leaves us in the same position. How do we verify that their nuclear program is in fact not still working towards a weapon? They certainly are not going to hand us the keys. I don't think.
I saw a satellite picture which showed a line of vehicles which pundits opined was to transfer the 60% enriched uranium just before bunker busting time.
I saw a satellite picture which showed a line of vehicles which pundits opined was to transfer the 60% enriched uranium just before bunker busting time.
It's more probable that the regime put uranium IN the Fordow bunker, believing that it was impenetrable.
Trump's dealmaker claims cause tension between India and US
Murali Krishnan in New Delhi 06/23/2025June 23, 2025
There is new friction in the India-US relationship after US President Donald Trump claimed he helped broker a ceasefire between India and Pakistan.
US President Donald Trump's claim that he personally brokered a ceasefire between India and Pakistan during May's conflict has caused some diplomatic friction.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi told Trump in a telephone call that the ceasefire was achieved through talks between the Indian and Pakistani militaries and not US mediation, India's foreign secretary, Vikram Misri, said in a statement following the call.
"PM Modi told President Trump clearly that during this period, there was no talk at any stage on subjects like India-US trade deal or US mediation between India and Pakistan," Misri said.
"Prime Minister Modi emphasized that India has not accepted mediation in the past and never will," Misri added.
More at the above link.
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Originally posted by cliffw:
He is working also for peace between Russia and Ukraine.
Wasn't Trump boasting that he could end that war in one day if re-elected? How's that working out?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-25-2025).]
Meera Shankar, a former Indian envoy to the United States, had a different take. She told DW that it was perhaps somewhat clumsy to rebut Trump's claims of having brokered an end to the recent India-Pakistan conflict, since India did not seek a full-scale conflict.
She said it was possible that the Trump administration had helped persuade Pakistan to pull back.
"The Indian government was facing domestic criticism for allowing foreign intervention," Shankar said, "and I think the rebuttal was responding to this."
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Originally posted by Patrick: Wasn't Trump boasting that he could end that war in one day if re-elected? How's that working out?
Sorry, but when bogus claims and lack of trust is mentioned, Donald Trump immediately springs to mind. "One day" to end the Russia/Ukraine war... the ultimate blowhard!
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Originally posted by cliffw:
Iran's promises can't be trusted.
Besides, it wasn't me who first mentioned the great Russia/Ukraine peace-maker.
Well, getting back to the Israel/Iran situation, I don't agree with DJT and the Cease Fire. Without a major leadership change in Iran, not much will change. IMHO we are not allowing Israel to finish the job, I'd also advocate sending our bombers back to re-bomb the already hit sites and destroy the remaining associated nuclear sites and only those sites. We should be supporting Israel and it's efforts. Doing as I'm suggesting requires no American Troops on the ground. Civilian targets should be avoided unless the Iranians use civilian locations to hide the military, weapons and leadership. Israel should be targeting communications, infrastructure, oil production and port/shipping of their main source of income. I would not let the zealots in charge go free. Trying to pacify them has been tried by too many for far too long.
Our bombs only delayed Iran in developing Nuclear Weapons, the technology (know how) is impossible to destroy.
This is possibly a once in a lifetime opportunity to change a country's governing body permanently. Admittedly, I don't have any intel to know what neighboring countries are doing behind the scenes. History has shown multiple times that destroying a countries military and it's leadership will allow more moderates to come to power. Don't forget, this is a country that has for decades preached, chanted and boldly stated Death to Israel and Death to America.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 06-25-2025).]
Rams, I pretty much agree. There's a cease fire - for now. It still doesn't grant us - or anyone else who cares - access to Iran's nuclear sites, which is what we wanted before all the "festivities". I really expect that Iran will sit down and shut up, for now. Then they'll quietly start picking through the wreckage and salvage what they can of their program. I'm certain that I'm not the only person who is thinking about this. I have to believe it's being discussed, behind closed doors. I suspect that Israel has their finger on the pulse of "what's going on". At least I hope so. Maybe the mullahs will be gifted with a new shipment of beepers.
Patrick, did Canada show up at the NATO conference in Cliff Pennocks back yard ? In Trumps first term, "the Donald" got members to pay as agreed 2% of their GDP. Canada still hasn't met that agreement. Now Trump has stated that with times that it needs to be 5%. Most members agreed.
I know Canada showed up, and that y'all agreed to Trumps proposal of 5% of your GDP. Y'all did not honor your last promise of 2%. Canada appears to be like the Iranians. Can we take Canada's word for it this time ?
Originally posted by blackrams: Well, getting back to the Israel/Iran situation, I don't agree with DJT and the Cease Fire. Without a major leadership change in Iran, not much will change.
I would like to see the leadership change happen by the Iranian citizens. When a vacuum of power is created who knows what fills it ? History has shown many times that the devil we don't know is worse than the devil we do know.
The USA was created by it's settlers / ie citizens.
I would like to see the leadership change happen by the Iranian citizens. When a vacuum of power is created who knows what fills it ? History has shown many times that the devil we don't know is worse than the devil we do know.
The USA was created by it's settlers / ie citizens.
While you have a valid point, it's hard to imagine (for me) how the replacement could be much worse than what Iran currently has.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 06-26-2025).]
Originally posted by blackrams: While you have a valid point, it's hard to imagine (for me) how the replacement could be much worse than what Iran currently has.
Well, in a wide-ranging news conference today, DJT was asked about Iran and if they proceeded to develop "the" bomb would he bomb them again. Absolutely! IIRC, he said absolutely or something close to that. I don't believe he's bluffing.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-01-2025).]
