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THIS DEBATE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO MEAN SOMETHING by BingB
Started on: 09-02-2024 09:15 PM
Replies: 210 (1799 views)
Last post by: BingB on 09-16-2024 07:40 PM
cliffw
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Report this Post09-10-2024 12:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
The argument for DEI hiring goes something like:

P1. There is a difference in opportunities available, not just outcomes, for some groups ...


Wrong. The argument for DEI hiring is that outcomes for all colored people and genders should mirror the percentage of populations of all colored people and genders.

 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
The argument for DEI hiring goes something like:

P2. Those groups are equally capable of performing in the roles this lack of opportunity impacts
C. Opportunities should be directly extended to those groups impacted by this gap


Correct. The argument for DEI hiring is that outcomes for all colored people and genders should mirror the percentage of populations of all colored people and genders.

Which is bullzhit ! Those groups are not equally capable of performing in the roles the rolls they have no experience in.

 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
If you believe that all gender and racial groups have the exact same access to opportunities, then DEI hiring/staffing/whatever will make no sense; you disagree with a core premise of their rationale.


There it is ! If you believe that all gender and racial groups do not have the exact same access to opportunities you are racist and sexist.

 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
If you assume a "brown woman" will naturally perform worse than a a more traditionally colored or gendered candidate, DEI hires will make no sense; again you disagree with a core premise of their rationale.


There it is again. Racism and sexism. What makes you think color or sex matters ? What makes you think "we" assume ?


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Report this Post09-10-2024 01:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

cliffw

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quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
Do you believe that everyone in the US has the exact same level of opportunity, and that no group suffers from any kind of lack of opportunities available to other groups? If so, what do you think accounts for the socio-economic differences amongst groups particular to our country?


Of course everyone does not have the exact same levels of opportunity. One can not graduate high school after completing 5th grade. Everyone does have the same level of opportunity to complete 5th grade and graduate high school.

The socio-economic differences are a direct result of making the most of opportunities that one facilitated. Sometimes doing better in life begins with how you parents did.

 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
SCOTUS did not strike down "affirmative action." They struck down the implementation of race-quota-based affirmative action in schools. I don't disagree with that. I also never said I agree with any particular implementation of Affirmative Action or DEI policies; I just described the rationale behind them. The SCOTUS decision even leaves room for DEI policies as long as they are not directly treating applicants differently based on race.


Race, gender, same prejudiced motive.

 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
I don't necessarily disagree with that: I think affirmative action quotas treat a symptom instead of the problem, and realistic equity policies need to address the underlying causes.


What would be a realistic equity policy ?
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Report this Post09-10-2024 02:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


What would be a realistic equity policy ?


one made by old rich white guys ?
or the courts about the same group with a few out voted exceptions
legislative bodys SOS as above

ask the victims ?
they never do that

well then what

massive fines for the exploiters slave owner
or the banks who loaned the money to build the ship pay crews to get the slaves
or the shipper who just sold cotton the slaves grew the mill owner who bought the slave grown cotton
or mill workers who's job needed slave cotton or no job
store who sold the final cloth or finished piece
or almost all had a bit somewhere

maybe just stop screwing with them by the prison planet system in the USA
stop redlines and job restriction and the cops shooting them on a whim
job training and mental help instead of swat teams and tanks

really commit to kinder gentler less repression in rule laws and the enforcement of them

look at mr hill on a sunday drive to work jerked out of a car on a whim by a pig

end that kind of pig demands for unearned respect
end putting people face down in the dirt by the pigs
they seldom do that to old white rich guys
not doing it to any one would be equality
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Report this Post09-10-2024 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sloganeering of the CCP/PLA !
Drink a shot when Kamala blurts :
' Going Forward '
' Our Democracy '
' Gun Control '
' Right Wing Media Censorship '
' Voting Rights '
All of which are violations of the Constitution.
You will have noticed that so far, no Dempartie representative has been convicted of treason, so far.
[ uscode_house_gov_title18_chapter115 ]
Merrick Garland detained on January 27, complaining about his rights being violated.
Majorkas in the same court services van, claiming immunity.
Consequences of corruption.
The Dempartie Mob gets taken down.
~ Nuremberg Trials '46
The rounding up of foreign agents, dempartie communists, ccp/pla sycophants, blm, antifa, hamas, all the subversives.
Held in detention at the Ellis Island Camps on the far Arizona border, the limestone quarries.
Making America Great Again !


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Report this Post09-10-2024 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rod the Mod...

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Report this Post09-10-2024 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BingBSend a Private Message to BingBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


There it is again. Racism and sexism. What makes you think color or sex matters ? What makes you think "we" assume ?


Because there is so much hard proof that racism and sexism exist.

-Scientific studies showing that identical applications for housing or employment are treated differently if they have an "ethnic" name.

-Multiple court cases finding proof that police use racial profiling and treat minorities differently. Many cases involving law enforcement admiting to using racial profiling.

-The existence of groups who not only admit to their white supremist beliefs but actually brag about them.

-The popularity of racist content on-line where individuals can not be identified.

[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-10-2024).]

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Report this Post09-10-2024 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BingBSend a Private Message to BingBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

BingB

2184 posts
Member since Nov 2023
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
What would be a realistic equity policy ?



Equity policies would generally be based on economic need, not race. But since minorities have higher poverty rates they would benefit more.

There are two huge basic steps we need to take to equalize opportunity in the United States.

--Equalize public education. Right now the public education system DECREASES EQUITY because the students that are already the wealthiest go to the best schools which just multiplies their advantage over the poor. All schools should be regulated by and equally funded by some state tax. And this means for ALL students. Not just the ones who have the resources to abandon a bad school.

--National health care. Every other industrialized country on the planet can do it, so we can to. Health insurance industry just carries too much weight. Insurance companies make about $40 billion a year in profits, and they provide zero health care. The cost of health care would drop dramatically if it did not include the cost of running insurance companies. But healthy care is another issue that DECREASES EQUITY. People with money get better health care so they are more healthy. Minor health issues are treated so they do not develop into major health issues. A serious injury or illness for just one single member of a family can take down an entire family. The number one cause of bankruptcies in the United States are medical bills.

Day care cost is the third thing, but it is not as big as the top 2. One of the major reasons many single women do not work is the cost of day care.

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Report this Post09-10-2024 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
melt down on going now
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quote
Originally posted by ray b:

melt down on going now

Should we call a doctor for you?
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Report this Post09-10-2024 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
trump is showing the rump

funny guy just can't not do it
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Report this Post09-10-2024 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The date's not quite right, but... Oh, What a Night

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Report this Post09-10-2024 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
others
anyone have a good recipe for cat? Savory or sweet?
She crushed it. Eating dogs is the existential threat to America. LOL

It'll be interesting to see when they tally the actual talking time of each candidate how much longer they allowed TFG to yammer than Harris.\\\


There is no need for a second debate.

The same concepts I assume he's had for eight years now... He'll tell us the details any day now.

Brutal night to be a Gropenfuhrer supporter.
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Report this Post09-11-2024 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Did Trump mention anything about the border? I think I might've missed it.

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Report this Post09-11-2024 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
randye
do you have a good recipe for cat?
albatross ?

local haitian never were a pet problem

now goats or chicken are a voodoo hoodoo thing

pennys and an occasional bottle of cheap rum by a cross road near water

but never skin a cat that ain't voodoo or haitian

it is Gop low level lies and racist BS

mia we have haitians
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Report this Post09-11-2024 01:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:





RFK also saw what everyone, (with a brain), saw.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. shreds ABC News moderators for ganging up on Trump during the debate and for refusing to fact-check Kamala Harris.

"We had moderators who were clearly biased, who were constantly fact-checking Donald Trump."

"But none of these kind of whoppers that the vice president was saying..."

"[The moderators] simply sat there on the sidelines and allowed that to pass."

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-11-2024).]

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Report this Post09-11-2024 02:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

We had moderators who were clearly biased...


So biased, that as a matter of fact, they gave Trump time over and above what he should've been allotted. And it worked out fantastically! Trump was given more of an opportunity to make himself appear to be a rambling idiot. Seriously, how many times was it really necessary to bring up the border? It seemed to be his go-to response for almost every topic up for debate.
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Report this Post09-11-2024 06:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

.
Well, that was absurd.
Kamala lying right to America's face, she can't help it, it's what she does, a lying politician, surprise, surprise, not.
No rational person acquainted with reality could possibly vote for the grifting Dempartie Kommunist Klown Klan.
' How full of sheet is Kamala ? Right up to her neck ! '
Alinsky tactics in blatant view of all, 180 degrees from truth, on every dang topic, a total disassociation, incomprehensible disregard of sensibility.
Apparently, obviously, the Dempartie strategy is to repeat the ' Orange man bad ' rhetoric, hoping to con the voters into endorsing the ripoff party.
What they haven't yet discovered, is the illegal voters will overwhelmingly vote Trump, to preserve their new constitutional rights, having been denied them in their communist countries of origin.
525+ electoral votes, a rejection of the false party of pandering kommunist klowns, Kamala's Klowns.
Come November, a new hope for America, President D.J.Trump making America Great Again !
' Yay ! Trump ! '
' Yeah, Punt Kamala's Klowns clear across Pennsylvania Avenue, far, far out of the White House ! '


[This message has been edited by Valkrie9 (edited 09-11-2024).]

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Report this Post09-11-2024 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
Because there is so much hard proof that racism and sexism exist.


You think color or sex matters because there is proof of it ? Colored people sold other colored people into slavery. Do you have a point.

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-Scientific studies showing that identical applications for housing or employment are treated differently if they have an "ethnic" name.


That's a damn shame. Why are ... wait. You would still be right if you had said "that identical applications for housing or employment are treated differently if they have an colored name." Pocahontas Elizibeth Warren owes her career to being an Indian.

Being White is not an ethnicity ? White is not a color ?

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-Multiple court cases finding proof that police use racial profiling and treat minorities differently. Many cases involving law enforcement admiting to using racial profiling.


That is bullzhit. Profiling is a valuable tool.

The Black population in America is 15% of the total population of America. Yet they commit 30% of the violent crimes.
According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2008, black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery.

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-The existence of groups who not only admit to their white supremist beliefs but actually brag about them.


As opposed to colored supremacist groups who admit to their colored supremacist beliefs ?

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-The popularity of racist content on-line where individuals can not be identified.


Such as DungD's location ?

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Report this Post09-11-2024 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NewDustinSend a Private Message to NewDustinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Wrong. The argument for DEI hiring is that outcomes for all colored people and genders should mirror the percentage of populations of all colored people and genders.

Correct. The argument for DEI hiring is that outcomes for all colored people and genders should mirror the percentage of populations of all colored people and genders.

Equity in outcome is not a necessary part of any particular DEI policy. It's a popular way some groups have tried to address the problem but that's an entirely separate argument and including it as a premise for DEI policies at large would be self-referential and fallacious.

 
quote

Which is bullzhit ! Those groups are not equally capable of performing in the roles the rolls they have no experience in.

I agree that Affirmative Action programs with race or gender quotas misunderstand the issue and often fail to set those they "help" up for success. I'm not defending or supporting those policies, I'm suggesting that policies that address the inequality in opportunities (think access to food/shelter/education for children) are not the same thing. I elaborate on this point a bit previously in this thread.


 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
There it is ! If you believe that all gender and racial groups do not have the exact same access to opportunities you are racist and sexist.

There it is again. Racism and sexism. What makes you think color or sex matters ? What makes you think "we" assume?

You had to take some pretty large leaps and then still put words in my mouth in order conclude that I was saying any of this. You can believe that people in the US have equal opportunities without being racist. Similarly, you can believe that there are different capabilities between men and women without being sexist. If I wanted to say you were being racist or sexist I would have said "Hey Cliff, that's racist/sexist."
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Report this Post09-11-2024 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
Because there is so much hard proof that racism and sexism exist.


You think color or sex matters because there is proof of it ? Colored people sold other colored people into slavery. Do you have a point.

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-Scientific studies showing that identical applications for housing or employment are treated differently if they have an "ethnic" name.


That's a damn shame. Why are ... wait. You would still be right if you had said "that identical applications for housing or employment are treated differently if they have an colored name." Pocahontas Elizibeth Warren owes her career to being an Indian.

Being White is not an ethnicity ? White is not a color ?

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-Multiple court cases finding proof that police use racial profiling and treat minorities differently. Many cases involving law enforcement admiting to using racial profiling.


That is bullzhit. Profiling is a valuable tool.

The Black population in America is 15% of the total population of America. Yet they commit 30% of the violent crimes.
According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in 2008, black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery.

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-The existence of groups who not only admit to their white supremist beliefs but actually brag about them.


As opposed to colored supremacist groups who admit to their colored supremacist beliefs ?

 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:
-The popularity of racist content on-line where individuals can not be identified.


Such as DungD's location ?

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Report this Post09-11-2024 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NewDustinSend a Private Message to NewDustinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Everyone does have the same level of opportunity to complete 5th grade and graduate high school.

The socio-economic differences are a direct result of making the most of opportunities that one facilitated. Sometimes doing better in life begins with how you parents did.

These two sentences seem to contradict each other. If "doing better in life begins with how you parents did," how would "everyone have the same level of opportunity to complete 5th grade and graduate high school"? Some kids don't have reliable access to food, shelter, or safety; how are those not impediments to opportunity?

 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Race, gender, same prejudiced motive.

I wasn't commenting on the rationale behind striking it down (which I largely agree with), I was commenting that they only struck down policies that set race-based quotas.

 
quote

What would be a realistic equity policy ?

I believe I've already answered that:

 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
I don't really disagree with any of that, and I don't think it needs to come from a place of envy. I do, however, know that some segments of society do not have the same access to food, housing, medical care, or education. I don't disagree with efforts to address those things. Access to free/optional breakfast/lunch programs at schools is one example of a realistic equity policy -we can solve food insecurity for students during the week. Access to quality education is another -one there are multiple fiscally conservative solutions to, btw. So for that, how about a charter system similar to what Todd advocates for? How would that not be an equity program?


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NewDustin

530 posts
Member since Jan 2024
 
quote

Originally posted by Patrick:
https://images.fiero.nl/use...27C4N7QO.jpg

I submit this as evidence that AI art is true art.

[This message has been edited by NewDustin (edited 09-11-2024).]

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Report this Post09-11-2024 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

.
So, now you see what a lying fraud Kamala really is, blatant lies right into America's face.
Frame by frame, parse her every utterance, discover that she lied 90% of her time.
And that, children, is why she will lose in November, biglier, and uglier.
' Yay ! President D.J.Trump Makes America Great Again ! '
' Yeah, there's no room at the top for lying hoes. '
' Donald Trump is so too a dictator ! ' ~ That's a lie !
' Donald Trump colluded with Putin ' ~ That's a lie too !
' Donald Trump will win in Pennsylvania, Georgia, New York, Michigan ' ~ That's no lie !
lol

Rachel Maddow losing her sheet on msnbc, ' The end of our democracy ! '
Yes, yes, the dempartie relegated to the wilderness, for decades, Kamala's blatant lying triggering the rejection,
the expulsion from power, forever.
' She did it ! It's her fault !
Couldn't stop lying ! She lied more than Hillary ! She lied more than Biden_Joe !
She lied more than Al Gore ! She lied more than Wild Bill Clinton ! '
It's so pathetic.

[This message has been edited by Valkrie9 (edited 09-11-2024).]

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Report this Post09-11-2024 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE


 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:

I submit this as evidence that AI art is true art.



And here's a big pussy. The cat's rather large as well.

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Report this Post09-11-2024 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
These two sentences seem to contradict each other. If "doing better in life begins with how you parents did," how would "everyone have the same level of opportunity to complete 5th grade and graduate high school"? Some kids don't have reliable access to food, shelter, or safety; how are those not impediments to opportunity?


Public schools are free. Food is free for those that can not afford food. Shelter is also free for those that can not afford it. Safety ? Are any of us safe ?

I can do much to advance my lot in life. Which improves my available opportunities.

You are being disingenuous. Have you ever heard the phrase "you can be anything you want to be" ? Yes, there are those who claimed we will never land on the Moon.

Impediments to opportunity are self made. Opportunity are self made. Abraham Lincoln, as poor as it gets, became the President. He had to want to walk miles, to borrow books, and then return them. You don't think his "want to" payed more dividends ?

I am generous with help to those that help themselves. I learned that from those that helped me, and not others.

Again, you are being disingenuous. Those that are sowing the division of opportunity, never suggest that we provide more free food, free housing, or free safety ! They are planting sugar plumbs in the weak and lazy that it is not their fault, that they can not overcome.

You know nothing about me. I grew up with many circumstances that would cripple many from success. I even created and added my own negative challenges. I even planted some permanent black records on my history. Never graduated from High School.

I laugh at life and cuss myself for not doing as good as I could have. I am retired, have no money issues, (other than I want more). I own properties, some pretty damn cool vehicles and have owned many more. Some I destroyed out of stupidity.

Stupidity is the key to success. The key to opportunity.
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cliffw

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quote
Originally posted by NewDustin:
How about a charter system similar to what Todd advocates for? How would that not be an equity program?


Why are leftoids who push for equity against it ?
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quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Abraham Lincoln, as poor as it gets, became the President. He had to want to walk miles, to borrow books, and then return them. You don't think his "want to" payed more dividends ?.



His "want to" would not have meant a thing if he had not been both white and a man.
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.
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BTW I have an uncle who smoked a pack a day but never got heart or lung disease. According to your logic this proves that smoking does not contribute to heart or lung disease.

[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-11-2024).]

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BingB

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quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Opportunity are self made.

This is complete BS.

People born into wealthy families have opportunities that other people can not even dream about. And it is not just getting family assistance financially. The saying "Who you know is more important than what you know" is absolutely true. Connections can make or break a career.


I am not saying that wealthy people don't work hard for their success. I am saying that lots of people work hard and just never get the opportunities that the wealthy do.

The claim that the only reason some people fail is because they are lazy is not true.

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quote
Originally posted by BingB:

This is complete BS.

People born into wealthy families have opportunities that other people can not even dream about. And it is not just getting family assistance financially. The saying "Who you know is more important than what you know" is absolutely true. Connections can make or break a career.


I am not saying that wealthy people don't work hard for their success. I am saying that lots of people work hard and just never get the opportunities that the wealthy do.

The claim that the only reason some people fail is because they are lazy is not true.


Your statement is also not completely true, sure "rich kids" may be afforded extra opportunities, BUT - there have been a lot of people that made opportunities for themselves. Just to name some: Gates, Zuckerburg, Woz, anyone that started a store/restaurant/etc chain, etc, etc. Then there is all those YouTube "celebrities/influencers".

But let us not forget that there are many lazy people out there that expect things just be handed to them...

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 09-11-2024).]

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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:



Donald Trump has more empathy for the kittens, than Kamala Harris has for the American people.

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Report this Post09-11-2024 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Donald Trump has more empathy for the kittens, than Kamala Harris has for the American people.


Based on what?

The only kittens that Donald Trump has any interest in are of the two legged variety.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-11-2024).]

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Report this Post09-11-2024 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Based on the picture that you posted, kind sir.

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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


This is what AI generated from

"Donald Trump. Grab them by the pussy"

[This message has been edited by BingB (edited 09-11-2024).]

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Report this Post09-11-2024 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Back to the debate.....

21 False Claims & Hoaxes by Kamala Harris that ABC’s Debate Moderators Did Not Fact Check https://www.breitbart.com/p...-did-not-fact-check/

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