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Never Let A Crisis Go To Waste. Ukraine. by cliffw
Started on: 05-21-2022 09:11 AM
Replies: 20 (262 views)
Last post by: cliffw on 05-23-2022 08:00 AM
cliffw
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Report this Post05-21-2022 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by WonderBoy:
I find it quite odd, no one wants to know where $40 billion is being spent in Ukraine... the break down.


 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
The $40 billion that Congress just approved is $3 billion more (I think) than what the Biden administration originally asked for.

I do believe that the breakdown of this "mega-sized" $40 billion aid package into its various parts—how the money is going to be parceled out among the various parts of the total aid package—has been made public.


 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
You believe a lot.

When it comes to the action of this administration, I want proof.


 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

Have you seen any coverage (yet) of this aid package on C-SPAN?

I don't know where else you would be looking for your proof (or disproof.)


How about all of our US Congressional members.who voted on it ? Take this example from from Chip Roy (R) Texas.

Que the :38 second mark, although the whole !:41 second clip needs to be heard in it's entirety.

Really ? 13 billion dollars for the already funded State Department ??

Really, ? 110 million for amnesty security ??

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 05-21-2022).]

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rinselberg
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Report this Post05-21-2022 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
H.R.7691 - Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022
https://www.congress.gov/bi...ess/house-bill/7691#

This bill, passed by Congress, and which the President has just signed, provides $40.1 billion in FY2022 emergency supplemental appropriations for activities to respond to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The bill provides appropriations to several federal departments and agencies, including
  • the Department of Justice,
  • the Department of Defense,
  • the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
  • the Department of Health and Human Services,
  • the Department of State,
  • the U.S. Agency for International Development,
  • the Department of Agriculture, and
  • the Department of the Treasury.
Among other things, the bill provides appropriations for defense equipment, migration and refugee assistance, regulatory and technical support regarding nuclear power issues, emergency food assistance, economic assistance, and seizures of property related to the invasion.

Most of the $40.1 billion tab is for the Department of Defense ($20 billion) and the State Department ($19 billion).

This is the breakdown from the Congressional Budget Office or CBO:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/...05/hr7691_passed.pdf
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cliffw
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Report this Post05-21-2022 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why do we need 110 million for amnesty security, ?
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rinselberg
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Report this Post05-21-2022 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What's "amnesty security"..?

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WonderBoy
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Report this Post05-21-2022 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WonderBoyClick Here to Email WonderBoySend a Private Message to WonderBoyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

H.R.7691 - Additional Ukraine Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2022
{*snip*}

This is the breakdown from the Congressional Budget Office or CBO:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/...05/hr7691_passed.pdf

All because of the Ukraine question?
Nothing new. No TRUE break down where the money is going. Other than more giveaways, just like the covidian Nineteen bailouts, that were used to bailout failed past State spending, prop up the big box stores and kill small businesses. Lots STILL unaccounted for and unspent. All those schools in Cali get proper ventilation put in yet? I would think in South Cali where all those hormone injected children in transition would be experiencing body temp swings, it would be a priority.

Spend NOW, find out screwed later.

I see
NO transparency
in this.

You just copy and paste what mother gov says. Keep writing them checks. Inflation is transitory. But I'm sure they'll help prop up uncle Joe with maybe a few new crafty gov accountant jobs that were -created- due to this money shift.

Finland gets to become part of NATO
(What can they contribute?)
Sweden gets to become part of NATO.
(What can they contribute?)
Meanwhile Ukraine has been asking, begging for 2 decades.
Looks more and more like the deep state are greasing the cogs of the war machine.

I'm sure it was never intended by the founders of this ONCE GREAT country that those whom become public servants for the average citizen, to leave financial legacy's.
Families too big to fail.

[This message has been edited by WonderBoy (edited 05-21-2022).]

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rinselberg
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Report this Post05-21-2022 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think WonderBoy is just "whistling Dixie" here.

I expect the DoD's and State Department's Inspector Generals or IGs (and the IGs of the other federal departments and agencies involved) to do their job, and report at some future date about what has been happening with these appropriations, in terms of flowing the military and other kinds of assistance to Ukraine.

If we (as a nation) cannot take that chance, then the program should not proceed.

I think the program should proceed. Congress has passed it. The President has signed it into law.

If people are still "worked up" about it as the aid package proceeds, they should keep an eye out for what the IGs are reporting about it.

Anyone of that mind about it could return to this forum thread and regale the forum with "The big Ukraine aid package has become a travesty. I Told You So."

If they remember this thread.
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Report this Post05-21-2022 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I think WonderBoy is just "whistling Dixie" here.

I expect the DoD's and State Department's Inspector Generals or IGs (and the IGs of the other federal departments and agencies involved) to do their job, and report at some future date about what has been happening with these appropriations, in terms of flowing the military and other kinds of assistance to Ukraine.

If we (as a nation) cannot take that chance, then the program should not proceed.

I think the program should proceed. Congress has passed it. The President has signed it into law.

If people are still "worked up" about it as the aid package proceeds, they should keep an eye out for what the IGs are reporting about it.

Anyone of that mind about it could return to this forum thread and regale the forum with "The big Ukraine aid package has become a travesty. I Told You So."

If they remember this thread.


You are too trusting of bureaucrats.
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Report this Post05-21-2022 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


You are too trusting of bureaucrats.

I would say that he likes to play the devil's advocate, but it seems to be less of a role and more of a lifestyle choice.
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Report this Post05-21-2022 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
You are too trusting of bureaucrats.

What's your thinking on the big Ukraine aid package, or about Ukraine, more generally?
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Report this Post05-21-2022 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

What's your thinking on the big Ukraine aid package, or about Ukraine, more generally?


I think we can't secure our border. We have no business trying to secure theirs first.

What is happening is bad for Ukraine. However, we have no business funding a proxy war with a nuclear armed and unstable Russia.
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-21-2022 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

What is happening is bad for Ukraine. However, we have no business funding a proxy war with a nuclear armed and unstable Russia.


What should the "west" do... allow Ukraine to be decimated, and then maybe hold off stopping the Russian advance until after Poland (and the rest of Europe) is invaded again?

Compared to the expense of a third world war, the funds currently being spent on Ukraine's defense are a drop in the bucket.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-22-2022).]

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Report this Post05-21-2022 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To answer the question what does Sweden have to contribute, I present..
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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post05-21-2022 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

What should the "west" do... allow Ukraine to be decimated, and then maybe hold off stopping the Russian advance until after Poland (and the rest of Europe) is invaded again?

Compared to the expense of a third world war, the funds currently being spent on Ukraine's defense are a drop in the bucket.



https://worldstar.com/video...nough-of-his-foolery
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Report this Post05-22-2022 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WonderBoyClick Here to Email WonderBoySend a Private Message to WonderBoyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by steve308:
To answer the question what does Sweden have to contribute, I present..

(Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam...)

I understand. But like a liberal feminist protest, Swedish women by the hundreds lifting their shirts and flashing their high-beams is not a good defensive strategy.

Actually I'm curious how that would work... Imagine you're an invading army, and your multiple infantry groups come across multiple hoards of hundreds of half neked women. Would they all drop their weapons, with tears rolling down their cheeks, get down on their knees and THANK GOD such beauty was placed upon the earth? Peace?

Sadly though, it's 2022 and western liberalism reigns supreme. The invading army will have mental health cases amongst them, along with testosterone jacked women who'd be jealous and start some s*#t.

Women are no longer sacred. Nor are the unborn.
(For the times they are a-changin'...)
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cliffw
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Report this Post05-22-2022 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Why do we need 110 million for amnesty security, ?


Look, I am not going to do your thinking for you, nor have any hope you can understand critical thinking. Can you even connect the dots ?

Perhaps I should type slow for you, so I can help you.

How many Ukrainians are applying for amnesty ?

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
I expect the DoD's and State Department's Inspector Generals or IGs (and the IGs of the other federal departments and agencies involved) to do their job, and report at some future date about what has been happening with these appropriations, in terms of flowing the military and other kinds of assistance to Ukraine.

If people are still "worked up" about it as the aid package proceeds, they should keep an eye out for what the IGs are reporting about it.


Can you remember ? What did the IG's report about Trumps border wall funding ?
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rinselberg
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Report this Post05-22-2022 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Look, I am not going to do your thinking for you, nor have any hope you can understand critical thinking. Can you even connect the dots? Perhaps I should type slow for you, so I can help you.

How many Ukrainians are applying for amnesty ?

Can you remember? What did the IG's report about Trump's border wall funding?

Ah. Not amnesty security. Asylum security. As in refugees from Ukraine seeking asylum in the U.S. upon arriving at our southern border with Mexico or at some other point of entry.

I don't see where "amnesty" comes in. Did someone misspeak? Maybe Chip Roy said "amnesty" instead of "asylum" in that video at the very top of this thread?

As far as the IGs (Inspector Generals), I'm not suggesting that any of us would be aware of any IG reports about the Ukrainian aid package, unless we made a special effort to look into it. We might just get "hit" with a news media report about it. We might have to actively look for news media reports about it. But there will be IG reports, as the Fiscal Quarters and Fiscal Years of the Ukrainian aid package go by.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-22-2022).]

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Report this Post05-22-2022 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So now Poland wants a piece of the game

https://twitter.com/DagnyTa...message5141550%2Fpg1
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rinselberg
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Report this Post05-22-2022 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Two battalions of Polish infantry arrived on the territory of Ukraine. This was reported by war correspondent Semyon Pegov.

“According to our information, 2 battalions of Polish infantry moved out from Kyiv the day before and have already reached Pavlograd. Each battalion has 4 Rapira anti-tank guns, armored personnel carriers and American armored cars, ”the correspondent said in his WarGonzo telegram channel. According to the military correspondent, the Polish infantry is being prepared for transfer to the Avdeevsky front.

There is a possibility that the fighters are regular [Polish army] troops, and not mercenaries of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. However, it is difficult to verify the information at the moment, the author of the channel noted. Earlier it was reported that Poland is sending military assistance to Ukraine in connection with the conduct of a special operation of the Russian Federation to demilitarize the country. In addition, Poland is hosting the largest international military exercise Defender since the Cold War. For this, 7,000 NATO soldiers have already arrived in the country.

Mahadi Hassan for OopsTop(.com); May 22, 2022.
https://oopstop.com/two-bat...-arrived-in-ukraine/
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Report this Post05-22-2022 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

What should the "west" do... allow Ukraine to be decimated, and then maybe hold off stopping the Russian advance until after Poland (and the rest of Europe) is invaded again?

Compared to the expense of a third world war, the funds currently being spent on Ukraine's defense are a drop in the bucket.



You assume we have some obligation to do something? We have no such obligation. Ukraine is not my country and not my fight. Same as in all the other wars raging across the world.

Your strawman argument for Poland would invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter.
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Report this Post05-22-2022 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

You assume we have some obligation to do something? We have no such obligation.


You're the one making assumptions, about me feeling we (the west) "have some obligation to do something". I don't feel we have any such "obligation". I simply feel it would be exercising good judgement to nip this in the bud before the invasion of Ukraine by Russia expands to include more of Europe.

 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

Ukraine is not my country and not my fight. Same as in all the other wars raging across the world.


How'd you feel about the US military involvement in Iraq? Good call/bad call by George W. Bush?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-22-2022).]

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cliffw
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Report this Post05-23-2022 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Ah. Not amnesty security. Asylum security. As in refugees from Ukraine seeking asylum in the U.S. upon arriving at our southern border with Mexico or at some other point of entry.


How many Ukranians have applied for asylum security here in the USA ? They are not doing it in Poland or any other Nations providing refugee relief.

What do you think, or not think, what asylum security means ? Why would war refugees be required to pay for transport to Mexico, then pay the Cartels, to get to the USA ? Most war refugees go back to their homes as soon as they can.

 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
I don't see where "amnesty" comes in. Did someone misspeak? Maybe Chip Roy said "amnesty" instead of "asylum" in that video at the very top of this thread?


, You can't see the forest thru the trees. The only amnesty that is talked about is for illegal aliens.

No, Chip Roy did not misspeak, . He does not have cognitive decline like your President Brandon.

Surely you don't need me to help you reach Chip Roy's office so you can get clarification, do you ?


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