Thinking about my next project, after the Fiero is done of course... I'm trying to decide between a 1990-1993 Beretta GTZ with the Olds Quad 4 (180hp) or a 1991-1996 Grand Prix GTP 3.4L V6 (210hp) Just wondering if anyone knows a little about both of these cars. Which one has a potential to build the original motor for big hp gains? Which one is more reliable? I am leaning toward the Grand Prix (I love Pontiac) but there is just something I cant explain that draws me to the 4 cylinder Beretta. What do you think?
I owned a 92 GTZ Beretta and it was probably one of my favorite cars. A lot of people are going to tell you the Quad 4 is junk and they can be right but usually wrong. If taken care of, it can be a very reliable motor, especially if the head gasket has already been replaced. The little guy just keeps revving and pulling the whole way until you shift and then the ride starts all over. The head gasket went on mine around 130,xxx and I took the opportunity to go through the whole motor. I sold it at 160,xxx and ended up re-buying it at 170,xxx. I ended up selling it again to a forum member here because the frame was terribly rotten and the guy that owned it in between the two times I did just trashed it. When I finally sold it, the motor was still running great.
As far as the Grand Prix, I'm a bit limited on knowledge but a friend of mine had a Z34 Lumina (same thing) in high school and I just remember it being stupid fast for what it was. All I can remember about that car is that he sold it because it developed a knock.
Both motors have been used in Fiero swaps so I'm sure there will be some more knowledgeable folks chiming in.
BTW, the one time me and my friend put our cars up against each other, I won with the Beretta.
Oh, and if you like older Grand Prix's, keep your eyes out for one of these
The 180 Hp Quad 4 is about as hopped up as it comes from the factory as you can get. 180 HP from 4 cyl isn't bad. Free revving RPM engines are fun. I just got a del Sol with the rare DOHC VTEC engine with a 8200 redline. It revs so easily you can just let it go rather than upshift as you would in a regular car when you have to stop pretty soon. The Grand Prix is a much bigger heavier car. Be sure you get a stick shift, don't even consider a automatic. The 180 HP probably never came with a automatic. There are forums for both cars.
Oh, and if you like older Grand Prix's, keep your eyes out for one of these
Which has also been swapped into a Fiero at least twice that I can think of.
As far as the 2 cars go, I've never owned one so I can't really say. The Beretta was one of my "wants" cars back when it was new, but after seeing the interior... I don't know if I'd get one now. The Grand Prix wasn't really a "want" car back then, but now I wouldn't mind owning one. Still, I'd rather a Saturn SC1 with the DOHC motor swapped in and rear stabalizer bar added. But I just like the first generation Saturns.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 05-13-2013).]
Grand Prix can have the DOHC 3.4L, which is quick and reliable. I had one for a while. Fast, roomy and fun. Note, not all GPs had this engine. Mine was a GTP.
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 05-13-2013).]
From what I recall about the 3.4 (vin X), they can go through alternators because of location causing heat soak. Other than that, they seem to just go and go like the rest of the Chevy 60* V6 family.
The W40 (vin A) found in the Beretta is what my Grand Am had. I loved it and chose to rebuild it after I blew it up. I never had any issues with it except for the ones that I caused.
As for the cars, I would take the GP. In my book even a bad Pontiac is much better than a nice Chevy. $.02.
Yup, alternators need their heat shield. I had one go bad, then the replacement went out and the last one worked fine. The second replacement had a shield problem (chain auto shop put it in wrong).
BTW, it is a real pain to replace the alt., from what I was told.
Some other things to consider: Grand Prix has IRS but weighs ~600lbs more. The Beretta has the Getrag 282 like the Fieros but the GP (if stick with the TDC 3.4) has a bigger 284. As mentioned above, the Beretta is the quicker car (in stock form). If you can only find the GP in auto, you might be able to swap in certain 6T75s. If you plan on building the motor up, parts for the V6 will be easier to find and cheaper.
Yup, alternators need their heat shield. I had one go bad, then the replacement went out and the last one worked fine. The second replacement had a shield problem (chain auto shop put it in wrong).
BTW, it is a real pain to replace the alt., from what I was told.
It comes out thru the passenger's side wheel well and is located behind the strut.
edited to correct an error discovered by jaskispyder.
[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 05-14-2013).]
I owned a '92 Beretta GTZ for 4 years until rust finally ate its soul. It had the 180 hp HO Quad 4 in it. When I realized rust was winning the battle, I started looking around for another Beretta to swap the engine into. When I couldn't find one after six months of looking, I decided to get a Fiero and swap the engine and trans into it.
My GTZ went to the big scrapyard in the sky last October. I never knew how much I could miss a car. Sure, I miss the first car I ever owned, a 1970 Pontiac LeMans that I drove while my wife and I were dating, but I miss that Beretta so much more. It was just so much fun to drive. It would cruise at 80 mph without even trying, while still getting high 30s mpg. But it really came to life when I stomped on it at 20 mph going up an on ramp. It was impossible to resist the temptation of flooring it every chance I got.
Progress on swapping the HO Quad/Getrag into my '87 Fiero has been painfully slow. But I'll get there some day.
BTW, my GTZ was given to me by my brother after he blew a head gasket. I replaced the HG, freshened up everything but the bottom end, and the engine gave me 100,000 miles of dependable driving. I replaced the radiator and alternator along the way, but the engine itself was very reliable.
If you get it, you might consider replacing the Crank Position Sensor and the Ignition Control Module with AC Delco units. Also, check to make sure the body seam on the firewall isn't leaking. The sealant used by the factory dries up and shrinks, allowing water to run down the windshield and into the floor pan every time it rains. It's a common problem on Berettas and it's what killed mine.
i owned a 96 berreta gt and the rust on the firewall seams were eating it alive but before i had a chance to fix it i wrecked it. damn airbag went off a good 6-7 seconds after the fact to giving me really bad powder burn on my face and neck.
i miss that car the most and i have bought and sold over 100 car since then too and every chance i get i look at them but haven't found one decent enough to go for
i owned a 96 berreta gt and the rust on the firewall seams were eating it alive but before i had a chance to fix it i wrecked it. damn airbag went off a good 6-7 seconds after the fact ...
Same thing happened to a friend of mine, who wrecked a Cavalier. Said that after the dust cleared, he was sitting on the side of the road, gathering his wits, and "got hit in the face by Mike Tyson".
when the bag went off it slammed me in the face and knocked me back into the seat (i was trying to get out of the car and boom right to the face, it knocked my glasses off and stunned me worse than i was already). other than that best car i have owned from the 90's though
I'd say GP. We had a 92 3.1 auto. that was a fun car. We sold it when the control arms rotted off. We may get a 5 speed GTP eventually though. I also hate the Quad motors. Had 2 of them spit rods.
Have you considered getting a Beretta with the V6, and swapping in a 3400 / 3500? That would make for a pretty quick car. And it would be more reliable than the Quad 4.
I had a "regular" Beretta with the 3.1 MPFI engine. Drive it for 13 years. It was a good car and did almost everything better than the car I replaced it with (my Cobalt). In fact, the Beretta only trails the Cobalt by a couple MPGs on the highway. I did however upgrade it with as many GTZ suspension goodies I could get my hands on - springs, lower frame brace.... and a strut tower brace from a Cavalier convertible. Made the car lots tighter. Also added 92+ brakes which are better than the 88-91 version.
I drove my GTZ as a daily driver for four years and never had any trouble with the HO Quad. I then drove an '89 Cutlass with the 2.8 V6 for about a year. The Cutlass made me miss the GTZ even more than I expected. The Cutlass was a much heavier car, and the 2.8 had many issues.
I've owned a GTZ and driven that gen GP. My opinion would heavily sway towards the GTZ. Much more fun to drive to me. It felt light and quick on its feet by comparison. If you go to the Beretta forum there are (or used to be) people making some pretty crazy power out of those little screamer quad 4s. The motor is very easy to work on as well. Main problems I've ever really seen go wrong is head gaskets or timing chains. Neither fix is too bad with the way that motor sits in that car. Upgrade the suspension and lower it a touch the Beretta will feel like its on rails. AND the best part of the car...... the seats
------------------ ~James
87 GT (Under Construction)
Madarch Widebody, Kahines tail, 3800SCII.... gonna be fun making threads on those!
Do the GTZ all the way! Mine had the Quad 4 with a manual transmission. I got it with the Achieva ACX Quad 4 engine. (A little more HP over stock. 185 I think). Hollowed out catalyst, JET performance chip and slightly lowered. I would easily hit 180 KM/H in third @ 7,500 RPM, no problem! I had zero problems with the car, ever. My mechanic buddy said "never bring that thing here". So one's opinion will differ from the rest. Plus, when's the last time you seen a GTZ on the road? Exactly.
