I hate to post rumors, but I have been following this guy since before winter. He has hit the nail on the head, numerous times, over the past few months. (Stellantis is building Hemi engines again, CARB is getting their wings clipped, Bla, bla, bla.) This is his latest...
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-15-2025).]
tl;dw GM renewed the trademark for the Pontiac logo in April. Corporations renew trademarks regularly to maintain their legal hold, and GM still uses it on parts/accessories. Every few years someone interprets this as Pontiac or certain models coming back but the speculation amounts to nothing.
[This message has been edited by jonrev (edited 05-16-2025).]
I hate to post rumors, but I have been following this guy since before winter. He has hit the nail on the head, numerous times, over the past few months. (Stellantis is building Hemi engines again, CARB is getting their wings clipped, Bla, bla, bla.) This is his latest...
I would really hope so... of all the past brands they had, Pontiac had a real dedicated following. I've determined that I'll never buy another NEW GM car (or even a used normal person car) from GM ever again unless it's a Pontiac... maybe a Cadillac, but I generally don't spend money on things like that. But if they did come out with a new Pontiac, I might seriously, seriously have to buy it... even though I really don't need another car.
The only thing that makes me think otherwise though... GM's marketing vice director... I forget her name. She's a younger girl (to me anyway), late 20s, early 30s... and posts on Instagram all the time under the GM account. My daughter watches all of them, and constantly posts asking for people to bring back Pontiac. Anyway, she showed me one video from this girl that was getting roasted by literally everyone who responded.
She was making the Instagram post from her Buick SUV (one of the smaller egg-shaped ones). She was in her pajamas, and she was basically saying how anyone who wants GM to bring back the older cars is stupid, they're not coming back, and no one wants to go back into the past... that the newer GM cars are so much better. I'll see if I can find the video... but it was kind of a WTF post...
Originally posted by jonrev: ...GM renewed the trademark for the Pontiac logo in April... Corporations renew trademarks regularly to maintain their legal hold, and GM still uses it on parts/accessories. Every few years someone interprets this as Pontiac or certain models coming back but the speculation amounts to nothing.
Of course they do. There's still royalty/licensing fees to be made. And of course there are multitudes of "click-baiters" on YouToob. The originator of this video even has his moments. But he has access to lots of industry insiders - especially at Stellantis. I'm not one to jump on any internet bandwagons, but he's nailed a lot of stuff, waaaaay before the regular automotive press even got wind of it. (Anyone who knows me, knows that I tend to take stuff with a grain of salt. To include this video.) But if - *IF* - his GM inside knowledge is anywhere near his Stellantis knowledge, it could get interesting.
This is the same thing I posted on another car forum (Solstice Forum) ... there was a question as to whether or not Pontiac was coming back because they renewed the Pontiac trademark:
--- --- ---
To be clear, the only reason why they renew the Pontiac trademark is so that someone else doesn't start making a car under the Pontiac name... it's in their best interest to maintain the trademark so they can continue to generate revenue from reproduction parts and merchandise that use the logo. This licensing is no-cost revenue and is straight profit for the company. Additionally, it's so that someone else doesn't produce cars that directly competes against them.
There is strong demand for a new Pontiac... but remember that the current board of directors is largely still the same board that was installed back in 2009 after the government-forced bailout. These are not really car people. One of them was a teacher's union member, the other one previously managed school bus manufacturing, etc.
The current CEO of GM has been with GM for a while, but is generally not a fan of the idea of performance and views her role as an opportunity to make change, for whatever that's worth. This as her corporate slogan:
"We have the ambition, the talent and the technology to create a world with zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion."​
Additionally, if you have a teenager that has Instagram, check out the videos that GM's marketing director has been putting out. Every fourth post by her is her making fun of older people who like GM's older cars. She's a young girl that often makes videos from within her car, in her pajamas... usually from her Buick (whatever egg SUV version she has), and literally makes fun of people who keep asking GM to bring back Pontiac or Oldsmobile, or some of the older models.
But, like I said, there's clearly enough demand for GM to bring back Pontiac, but unfortunately it's definitely not something the current management has any interest in... it's just not going to happen unless GM sees it as a last-ditch effort to save the company during a financial crisis, or a plurality of GM's leadership is replaced. At this point, they see it as an ideological difference between a more modern / environmentally conscious vision, and one that they view as old fashioned (and racist because of Pontiac's iconology and roots).
This is the same thing I posted on another car forum (Solstice Forum) ... there was a question as to whether or not Pontiac was coming back because they renewed the Pontiac trademark:
--- --- ---
To be clear, the only reason why they renew the Pontiac trademark is so that someone else doesn't start making a car under the Pontiac name... it's in their best interest to maintain the trademark so they can continue to generate revenue from reproduction parts and merchandise that use the logo. This licensing is no-cost revenue and is straight profit for the company. Additionally, it's so that someone else doesn't produce cars that directly competes against them.
There is strong demand for a new Pontiac... but remember that the current board of directors is largely still the same board that was installed back in 2009 after the government-forced bailout. These are not really car people. One of them was a teacher's union member, the other one previously managed school bus manufacturing, etc.
The current CEO of GM has been with GM for a while, but is generally not a fan of the idea of performance and views her role as an opportunity to make change, for whatever that's worth. This as her corporate slogan:
"We have the ambition, the talent and the technology to create a world with zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion."​
Additionally, if you have a teenager that has Instagram, check out the videos that GM's marketing director has been putting out. Every fourth post by her is her making fun of older people who like GM's older cars. She's a young girl that often makes videos from within her car, in her pajamas... usually from her Buick (whatever egg SUV version she has), and literally makes fun of people who keep asking GM to bring back Pontiac or Oldsmobile, or some of the older models.
But, like I said, there's clearly enough demand for GM to bring back Pontiac, but unfortunately it's definitely not something the current management has any interest in... it's just not going to happen unless GM sees it as a last-ditch effort to save the company during a financial crisis, or a plurality of GM's leadership is replaced. At this point, they see it as an ideological difference between a more modern / environmentally conscious vision, and one that they view as old fashioned (and racist because of Pontiac's iconology and roots).
Actually Mary and Mark are performance fans. Mary even drives a Corvette.
The real trouble is cars in general are not popular today in the states. Toyota and Honda can still do sedans as they sell them globally. They can make money doing so. GM sells little in sedans in other markets butbtgey do move trucks and CUV models.
The real trouble is the American market. People are having trouble buying new cars and trucks. They also need utility as most small sedans can’t carry much vs say a Trax.
Performance cars are dying due to costs. It used to be they would build a performance model on an exist in g RWD car they sold 500k units of. Today they were left with no cheap high volume platforms for performance to be built on cheap. The Camaro was on a very expensive Cadillac platform that was low volume.
Also the automakers are coming off years of tighter and tighter emissions and mileage regulations. Even with regulation cuts now what will they face 4-8 years from now. There still will be fights with Carb States that account for around 46% of the American market. Also if they want to export they have regs overseas.
Anything performance Todsy has yo be FWD or low volume RWD with much higher prices. Even the cars Chrysler was building did not save them from being sold to the French. Even the Mustang is dying. It used to sell 600k units a year now 45k units. The formula is dead.
You need to give Mary credit we would not have the 1000 hp Corvettes and the V series cars we have if she and Mark were anti performance. Heck they are going to F1 now.
Times have changes and the old GM just does not fit the times today. The Economics today will not support car companies with much more than 3 divisions in any one market. Most only have two divisions.
The truth is Pontiac really died long ago. The Fiero really was the last true Pontiac. Everything since was just a Pontiac styled car on a corporate platform.
If Pontiac had survived it would have just been another CUV division. Best to save the name for a better time.
Also GM and most other companies trademark names to protect when and where they are used. The company I work gir does the same as GM to protect the names use. The Chinese often steal them. The visit if the license is often paid for the legal costs involved that are very expensive.
Also it protects ftom cheap low quality products from using the names.
I look at it this way, GM has the Cadillac at the high end and the Chevy at the lower end with only the Imported Chinese Buick in the middle. I would say that GM needs another American made car in the "mid range" but would it be profitable? I believe that GM would do well by offering an affordable Pontiac commuter car and then work their way up as they did with the Fiero. Another thing that GM needs to do is to completely get out of the unprofitable electric car program. Most buyers just don't want them.
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Pontiac as a NASCAR entry...no. Unconfirmed "smirks" from GM racing folks around NASCAR seem to indicate that Cadillac may be the racing sedan brand as an adjunct to the Cadillac F1 program.
Where does this leave the Corvette racing programs? Some discussion IT may become its own brand. A Corvette GTO??? Front engine rear drive platform??? Corvette Fiero as a detuned 4 cyl mid engine something??? Car names get "retreaded" often. As mentioned in the video - the Holden GTO as a follow up to the Nova GTO.
You add a division you have yo add more marketing, more management, more design, more engineering all st more costs at a time where money is tight with mfgs as development and mfg costs sre at all time highs.
As China sales decline the usefulness of Buick declines.
Pontiac as a NASCAR entry...no. Unconfirmed "smirks" from GM racing folks around NASCAR seem to indicate that Cadillac may be the racing sedan brand as an adjunct to the Cadillac F1 program.
Where does this leave the Corvette racing programs? Some discussion IT may become its own brand. A Corvette GTO??? Front engine rear drive platform??? Corvette Fiero as a detuned 4 cyl mid engine something??? Car names get "retreaded" often. As mentioned in the video - the Holden GTO as a follow up to the Nova GTO.
Fun to speculate, but only time will tell.
As of now Cadillac is not going to race NASCAR. This was already stated.
As crazy as it appears NASCAR may go to CUV models. GM and Ford both are testing models with EV drivetrains but they could be gas hybrid like Indy. Honda has shown CUV interest to. It is what they are selling and tgat is what they want to promote.
Corvette was floated as an independent but that talk has died. If they dud anything it was an EV Corvette SUV. But with the ERay failure that talk has died. GM right now has a new Gen V8 coming and may be in the Vette in a year or so. Texting is already going on. The C9 is due in 2028.
With the EPA changes automakers are trying for emissions breaks and cafe breaks. Not sure how long they will last but ice is not dead yet.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 05-27-2025).]
A whole lot of super knowledge in this thread. I had never heard of an Eray before. Or a CUV.
I am not sure why Buick survived and Pontiac was canceled. I remember Buick sold well in China. They had to start making them their. Of course China stole our technology. Buicks are imported ? I wounder why all of GM was not welcomed in China.
There are rumors the Fiero did not get a better power plant because GM was protecting the Corvette. Now we have a rear engine Corrvette. Is it mid engine ?
A whole lot of super knowledge in this thread. I had never heard of an Eray before. Or a CUV.
I am not sure why Buick survived and Pontiac was canceled. I remember Buick sold well in China. They had to start making them their. Of course China stole our technology. Buicks are imported ? I wounder why all of GM was not welcomed in China.
There are rumors the Fiero did not get a better power plant because GM was protecting the Corvette. Now we have a rear engine Corvette. Is it mid engine ?
The reason Buick survived was it made a butt load of money in China. Selling them here was just add on sales for GMC dealers. The sales are in decline in China and that could doom Buick. Cadillac and Chevy were in China but the emperor had Buicks and that is why they sold.
The reality was lesser engines and it is confirmed Chevy went after the Fiero to kill it. The Corvette sales were weak on the C4 and they feared they would not get a C5 approved. Pontiac had banked on the GM-80 FWD F body to be built on the Fiero line to fill production at the plant. It was canceled and Pontiac lost the gamble. The plant could make 250K cars and was at the expected 30K plus Fieros. 2 seat cars have as limited market. and with Pontiac over selling he first few years it hurt. Chevy pointed out the lack of production in the plant and called for it being closed. It was costing money and GM was already going broke.
As for the Corvette it was canceled in 1992. Chevy hid the program in an outside firm like Pontiac did the Fiero. They built the C5 mules and broke a lot of rules. and saved the car. There were a number of Fiero people working on the C5 by this point like the designer and interior designer. Cafaro and Albert.
