I thought there were only GM and TFS remakes. I come back 10 years later to find out I missed out on some exact copies that are better than stock. I am pretty sure I read there was another maker of lenses.
Well, I got ahold of a set of Goodyear lenses for a damn good deal and I want to take a stab at making sets to keep the hardest part to find for the Fiero, alive. I noticed there were DOT markings but not sure how legit those are. I do not have the time to read the 29 pages of posts to find the story of why GM didn’t allow these. My Electro-Mechanical professor (I’m 40, far from a college kid!) is a retired engineer for GM. We talked a little about the lenses and what she said why they couldn’t be produced sounded more like they didn’t meet DOT spec. I want to bring the lenses in to talk with her more about them and ways to reproduce them. Also have a set of delaminating lenses I get to pick up Monday. With the delam lenses my plan is to separate the pieces and scan those, make a mould with them, clean up the imperfections and cast from a cleaned up mould.
My plan is to 3d scan the lenses and buckets with a 3d scanner, either mine or the one my school has if it is any better. Also have a couple 3d printer’s, like any hobbiest. And work on making tooling and whatnot to make sets myself. With the delam lenses my plan is to separate the pieces and scan those, make a mould with them, clean up the imperfections and cast from a cleaned up mould. The scans will be used to make another set of lenses of a higher quality. This is so far an idea I am moving into action and as with KG, will take time to sort out.
Keith had to sit down with a group of lawyers and iron out licensing fees and royalties with GM. I believe he spent the better part of $25,000 on the injection mold. He had a deadline to sell all of his stock or he had to destroy the unsold lenses as part of the deal with GM.
Now I don't know about destroying the clear lenses that he made but I believe the unsold "Pontiac" logo lenses would have to be destroyed.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 11-04-2023).]
The "sit down" with GM was, as I understand it, regarding the PONTIAC wording on the lenses. As long as they're "generic", I don't think it's necessary.
I wish you luck in your endeavor. I suspect you will find it to be more trouble than it's worth. But I hope I'm wrong.
I don’t know all the specifics on Keith’s project, but I purchased 3 sets. I would have huge interest in buying more, but it probably won’t happen again on Keith’s watch. If only TFS would pick up this project, and they have the most connections / with GM to pull it off, they should reproduce them again. Even if the GM tooling is now gone, it can be done, just like Keith did. There is still huge potential for the product, sales, but all at a reasonable price. With inflation and production costs, today I would find 350$USD a set would be fair. I mean, TFS reproduced the GT windows. I heard they are the best reproduction quarter windows out there, and reproduced to the OEM window. (Matched shape and curve) There are still a lot of fastbacks out there, but some owners can’t or won’t restored them because of those 2 key parts. (GT windows and rear fastback lens) Those take a lot of the cars appearance. Without that looking show quality, it’s hard for a fastback to look great. The delaminating or aging lens to cracking / crazing / broken quarter windows, with a new paint job, the car looks unacceptable. As long as TFS has the GT windows available, the rear taillight lens need to come back keep Fiero owners satisfied or a pure garantie they less fastback Fiero will be scrapped, sold for parts, or just forgotten in some garage for a long, long time.
This GM lawyer BS is infuriating. Don't put the Pontiac Logo on them and tell them to stick it where the sun dont shine. The fact that GM has the gall to enforce ridiculous copyright restrictions on parts and components they DONT WANT TO SELL is wrong.
They did it to Mike's seats, they did it to Keiths lenses. Whos next?
This GM lawyer BS is infuriating. Don't put the Pontiac Logo on them and tell them to stick it where the sun dont shine. The fact that GM has the gall to enforce ridiculous copyright restrictions on parts and components they DONT WANT TO SELL is wrong.
They did it to Mike's seats, they did it to Keiths lenses. Whos next?
They also did it to Rodney and he had to remove the logos from the products he sold that had them.
As for the DOT -They were sold as an official GM licensed product and thus required the DOT certification.
The only reason they are no longer produced is due to the licensing agreement that was made with GM and you would have to talk to Keith about that if he is willing/able to share the exact terms of the agreement.
If you plan on selling them with the PONTIAC logo, you will get a C&D letter from GM. I wish you luck, but you may find that this is a lot harder to do than you think.
Keith Goodyear’s GT taillight reproduction lenses were the BEST option for cracked, damaged or missing units at around $450 for a pair. Unfortunately, their “Last Call” ended around May 2022.
quote
kgoodyear: We are sold out and will not be making them anymore. / They may also be for sale on eBay but they will cost a lot more. Good luck - Keith.
quote
Mickey_Moose: The only reason they are no longer produced is due to the (GM) licensing agreement
Now in 2023, people who brought Keith’s lenses are trying to sell them around $2k or more. I was luckily to get an OEM NOS pair less than the scalpers amount......
Any bets to see PONTIAC logo GT taillight reproduction lenses again knowing the "GM lawyer BS"?
Now in 2023, people who brought Keith’s lenses are trying to sell them around $2k or more.
I wonder if they're actually getting that much money? I tend to think there's a LOT of spare sets stashed away "just in case" or to flip. I bought a pair myself; they're still in the box. On my car, I have the FS lenses from 2005 or so which I feel are superior.
I think there's a better market for GT quarter windows. Have we ever had a set of replacement windows which everyone can agree is 100% perfect? Many have tried, but I don't recall any particular one being declared the best.
All of those "sales" are from the same guy... and I suspect all "sales" are completely bogus. Just a way trying to help jack the price up. Check his page Here. All the "sold" lenses are re-listed.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-06-2023).]
This GM lawyer BS is infuriating. Don't put the Pontiac Logo on them and tell them to stick it where the sun dont shine. The fact that GM has the gall to enforce ridiculous copyright restrictions on parts and components they DONT WANT TO SELL is wrong.
They did it to Mike's seats, they did it to Keiths lenses. Whos next?
If Ferrari can sue GM then there isn't really much of an argument to support claims. Just nobody makes money making parts for old cars it only becomes a favor the factory won't can't do.
[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 11-07-2023).]
All of those "sales" are from the same guy... and I suspect all "sales" are completely bogus. Just a way trying to help jack the price up. Check his page Here. All the "sold" lenses are re-listed.
krikey - for $3k for repros, I wonder what my NOS still in the wrappers is worth.
Another option is make a vinyl mask of the Pontiac logo when you spray the black covering. Make sure you include a notice that customers should not under any circumstances remove the vinyl mask! That's what the Chinese do to smuggle knockoff phones in. Make them in small batches so even you do get C&D no harm no foul. Make em to order.
I have always thought that someone should produce a FG piece for the tail-lights- but not with round >>Corvette<< tail-lights...Instead, how about twin slot-style lights, basically copying the style of 60s-70s Pontiacs?
My own plan (Which I may never pull off due to health issues) is to cover the TL opening with hex-grillwork, paint the cavity black, and then install those slot-style tail-lights- would look like the exotic cars that have the whole back open for airflow from the engine-compartment, and the tail-lights would only show when lit up.
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 11-07-2023).]
krikey - for $3k for repros, I wonder what my NOS still in the wrappers is worth.
I like the quote in the ebay add, "New aftermarket lenses with used buckets in good condition but buckets are used not new please see pics for condition. These lights will be sold as is No returns no warranty. Priced aggressively since lenses alone are selling for $1500 now."
This make my 4 sets of lenses from Keith Goodyear and used buckets worth $14,000 USD ! I think, I'll start looking for that '88 GT that lives in Canberra (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/private/pontiac/fiero/) At the current exchange rate, I can drive away for $12,800 USD.
