in collector stock status probably under 2%. Modified and in a garage another 1%. in someones backyard rotting or i will get to it someday another 2%. I would say total about 4%-5% left. around 18k and i think that number is still way high. with an all fiero show only bringing in under 200 cars. I think we are closer to the 7-9k total left market.
[This message has been edited by mmeyer86gt/gtp (edited 01-10-2022).]
As an interesting comparison there are estimated to be 10-15,000 Model T Fords in existence today ...
Here in Southern California, I used to see Fieros quite regularly. At this point I haven't seen one in probably 5 years or more, although I DID happen to see a Model T just last weekend. It seems that the remaining Fieros are all squirreled away in the garages and barns of America.
I was big into fieros around 10-15 years ago, at one point I had 6 at one time. Then life happened but I kept my favorite 1 for all these years. Now I just bought another but those are both in the garage for the winter. I'll be driving my new one in the summer months and finally working on the old one again once I can get my hands on a new rodney dickman gas tank.
I'm willing to bet there are more fiero's sitting dusty in garages like my story than you would imagine! The are unique enough cars that I dont think people scrapped them like they did with other 80s cars.
Now with the prices starting to go up I'd bet there will be some barn finds surfacing.
[This message has been edited by RichLo1 (edited 01-11-2022).]
Still got 21-22 rotting away. Offered an 86 SE, V-6, for $500.00. Clean title, motor cranks over, won't start up, needs lov$ right. No offers, just a junk car! Go figure.
I think one would be surprised on how many are probably still left. There are probably 30 different Facebook Fiero groups alone and they always seem to have new ones showing or for sale. I figure at least 30% are lost to crusher by now. With the plastic/fiberglass body design the undercarriage is prone to rust but not the panels. So I agree with others on here that a decent percentage are probably sitting in a yard, driveway, field, or garage (of which all are un-registered) as a "someday" project. The low percentages that are discussed are more of the pristine/low mileage cars since most purchased these to drive when new and not store as a collector vehicle.
Here is the deal. Two seat cars sell generally in limited numbers. Look at Miata numbers and per year they are slim.
The Fiero on the other hand was over sold as Pontiac needed to keep the plant closer to capacity till the GM 80 car arrived to share the plant.
This gave crazy production numbers for the Fiero. To be honest I think If one would check the Fiero is the highest number mid engine car ever produced and one of the highest production sports cars in just 5 years.
Now people today toss the term rare around like it really means something when applied to some cars produced in the thousands. But the truth is most real collectors look at 1200 or less as rare.
Take a 69 Trans Am at just over 650 cars now that is rare. 8 of those were drop tops and that is really rare.
Then you balance volume with demand.
Fiero’s are not common as daily drivers anymore but few 30 year old cars are. But they are not exactly rare as if you want a clean one you can go buy one fairly easy if you like.
I just got one back on the road last year that had been parked 25 years with 30k miles.
The Fiero community has been looking to be a collector car for years and the time is just now coming where non traditional Fiero fans are taking an interest. This is starting to increase demand and some value.
First will be the clean V6 cars and then the cars with rare parts or conversions will do well. Most any good TTop will do well as the average buyer could careless about an 88 option code for the same exact top in any Fiero. To be honest buying one with hood seals and glass means more.
At this point we should be happy with what we have coming as the Fiero in the 90’s was not an easy car to own. Most of us were treated like the crazy car guy for owning one. Today it is much better as so many have kind words for the car vs the insults.
The bottom line is when the day comes you can not find a clean Fiero on the web or in Hemings to buy that is when they have finally become rare. When you wait months to find a Fiero for sale that is rare.
A Friend is looking to buy a Bizzarrini. They made few and it can be years before one hits the market and then is it one worth the money asked. You shop globally for these. That is the true meaning of rare.
If it is a car you never have seen in person but only in photos that is rare.
The Fiero is not common on the road daily but it is far from rare.
I laugh at Pontiac events I get so many GTO owners that stop by and tell me they have a Fiero at home. They may not show it but they do play with the, or have added one to the collection.
I'd guess 25% are still around. Although my smog guy says that he hasn't seen one other than mine in years. He's owned the shop for 20 years.
As far as rarity vs value. They can continue to be rarer and rarer but if demand doesn't increase, it won't be reflected in the price. For instance if at some point in the future there's only 4000 left (1% of the original total, yet demand has also dropped 99% from the 1980's until that time, there may be no change in value (other than inflation). Most of the people today just want a modern reliable car. They may even appreciate and want to check out an old car but have no interest in owning, maintaining or storing one.
Seeing there are over 31000 members on this Forum, I would have to believe there are still at least t hat many left, as most members have at least one. HarryT
Down 3. a Teenager blew the corner by my house and took out three of my Fieros tonight. She also took out a riding lawnmower.
On a bright note the Highway patrol that showed up said "Is that an 85??!!" He had one when he was younger and regrets ever selling it. So we got to talk about them for a while. He told me never to sell another one, so the wife was super happy.
Down 3. a Teenager blew the corner by my house and took out three of my Fieros tonight. She also took out a riding lawnmower.
On a bright note the Highway patrol that showed up said "Is that an 85??!!" He had one when he was younger and regrets ever selling it. So we got to talk about them for a while. He told me never to sell another one, so the wife was super happy.
Ugh...Someone ran onto your property and totalled 3 parked Fieros in one hit?!? They're not repairable?
Did John-WI's 88 T-Top book ever get written? Checked the archives and every two years there was an update that he was on year 20 or whatever writing it but never saw it released.
If he's waiting for every single T-Top to be accounted for, this will never be released since there are going to be cars that were totalled and junked decades ago or a 70 year old man that has one in a barn that ain't interested in the internet or being tracked.
I'd say there are more Fieros left today as a percentage than, say, '84-'88 Cavaliers. But there are by far many, many more '84-'88 Cavaliers remaining because they made so many millions of them. I would not be surprised if the difference was tenfold.
I'd say there are more Fieros left today as a percentage than, say, '84-'88 Cavaliers. But there are by far many, many more '84-'88 Cavaliers remaining because they made so many millions of them. I would not be surprised if the difference was tenfold.
For sure. Anything that was just a standard commuter car without a collector or cult following is probably nearing extinction. How many people do you know that bought an 88 Cavalier and put it in storage and it has 0 miles on the odometer the way hundreds of Fiero collectors have?
3 in my driveway.... along with a whole bunch belonging the the Georgia Fiero Club. I have a close friend out in Texas who's always buying, selling, or going someplace to check out a Fiero. So I'm sure there's alot more than we think. And with Fiero Store still in business, they must be selling well. What kills me is all the classified adds I see with run down Fieros just sitting in the dirt . Their undercarrages must be ruined. So if you have one sitting around as a project car, get to it and fix that baby up. Lets flex some Fiero muscle and keep this lagacy alive.
For sure. Anything that was just a standard commuter car without a collector or cult following is probably nearing extinction. How many people do you know that bought an 88 Cavalier and put it in storage and it has 0 miles on the odometer the way hundreds of Fiero collectors have?
On the other hand few Cavaliers were weekend play cars driven limited ly and stored away most of the time.
A good number of Fiero’s were never daily drivers.
Ugh...Someone ran onto your property and totalled 3 parked Fieros in one hit?!? They're not repairable?
One is reparable I think. Also a riding lawnmower was taken out. It was pretty crappy beforehand, and I'm a bit glad I won't have to fight with it anymore. I'll be heading over there shortly.
The driver was going way too fast, jumped a ditch, took out a fence and played airborne pinball, landing on a parts car.
Going back if this forum had 31,000 members that would mean each one was an owner of at least one. I'll guess 10% of Fieros remain but of that 70% are GT's, Then throw in a few hundred kit cars, Zimmers, 308's, Meras and what about the garage queens?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Going back if this forum had 31,000 members that would mean each one was an owner of at least one. I'll guess 10% of Fieros remain but of that 70% are GT's, Then throw in a few hundred kit cars, Zimmers, 308's, Meras and what about the garage queens?
How many historical members are still active and still owners though?
How many historical members are still active and still owners though?
You also need to factory even with many on the Forum most owners are not active here. I meet more owners who never heard of this site than have heard of it.
For me i think we need to identify what around means.. Does it mean not crushed? Not rusted out? Would a rust free space frame count? I ask just because in the last 2 years I have seen quite a few Fieros. They will never make it back to the road again but they were still around. I think the estimates would have to be broken up by model and year too. I would estimate that there are less 84s around than anything else even though that year put out the most at 136,840. The Fire reputation for this year plus some oddities caused issues not to mention they were l4 only. I have personally only seen 1 84 the last large event I went to there were no 84s.
This is a production list table I found elsewhere. (its really for illustration not here to debate the accuracy)
YEAR BASE SE SPORT GT TOTAL 1984 7,099 67,671 62,070 0 136,840 1985 5,280 24,734 23,823 22,534 76,371 1986 9,143 32,305 24,866 17,660 83,974 1987 23,603 3,875 3,135 15,968 46,581 1988 19,553 0 0 6,848 26,401
Id say probably 10-15% of all 84s are still "around" Id say probably 15-20% of all 85s are still "around" (Personally ive seen the most 85s out of all years besides 88) Id say probably 20-23% of all 86s are still "around" (This is the first year of the fast back ive seen a lot of 86 GTs) Id say probably 15-20% of all 87s are still "around" (They changed the body panels of the 87 Coup making it a bit more tricky to get bumpers. They made less of them. My regular Fiero is an 87 i never see other 87s) Id say probably 25-30% of all 88s are still "around" 1984 13,684-20,526 1985 11,455-15,274 1986 16,795-19,314 1987 6,987-9,316 1988 6,600-7,920 Total 55,521-72,350 Percent 15%-19.5%
This would be my guess. Granted the percent that could be put back on the road is lower and this number shrinks every year as people move on or pass and that car that has been sitting in the field for years finally goes to the parts yard.
88 Database guy would have a good idea of dead 88s however i would still say a higher % of 88s are still around than any other because well you all know.
I would say the attrition rate is around 2% a year, based on the average for most all vehicles that are that are old and somewhat collectable like the Fiero.
The NSTB only does figures for vehicles up to 25-years old, and the average is 7.9% survival of cars are left after 25-years (average)
That puts it about 30K vehicles about 10-years ago around the NSTB average in line with the production of Fieros and 25 or so years later.
I say we are probably about 20K useable, tagged or restorable Fieros left now.
I would say the attrition rate is around 2% a year, based on the average for most all vehicles that are that are old and somewhat collectable like the Fiero.
The NSTB only does figures for vehicles up to 25-years old, and the average is 7.9% survival of cars are left after 25-years (average)
That puts it about 30K vehicles about 10-years ago around the NSTB average in line with the production of Fieros and 25 or so years later.
I say we are probably about 20K useable, tagged or restorable Fieros left now.
That is just registered. You then factor in unregistered cars as we know that there are a good number of them be it project cars etc.
The survival rate of cars like the Fiero, Corvette etc is generally much higher as these are not throw away cars to most.
If I had to guess all together at least 50k in various forms from never registered to sitting in the yard. Either way not rare. Could even be more.
Also we need to recall, the exported one and Canadian cars. Those that slipped to Mexico.
A decent number went to Europe as I get many calls at work for Fiero parts from there same for down under since the interior was easy to convert to RHD.
Up till a couple years ago they were a daily sight here in Ohio year round. Now mostly summer and not daily. I still see many in garages that seldom come out.
Just last year we put one back on the road with low miles after several decades.
I told the wife with the number of people we lost here in that thread leads me to wonder how many Fiero owners are left.
In many hobbies it is common to see people come and go. With Fiero's it is no different. You have the long term collectors/drivers and people who get into it to have fun and then move on. If you go back to 1995 most of the Fiero drivers and enthusiasts were young guys. Many got married and went on to raise a family and put their interest in Fiero's aside. Today I would say the audience has aged and the majority of Fiero owners are now middle age, and seniors. I see many of them returning to the hobby and many still in it. Point is I don't see that all the Fieros that were owned by the youth back then are gone. Some were garaged, put in storage, and sold to new collectors. This is reflected in the forum membership.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
In many hobbies it is common to see people come and go. With Fiero's it is no different. You have the long term collectors/drivers and people who get into it to have fun and then move on. If you go back to 1995 most of the Fiero drivers and enthusiasts were young guys. Many got married and went on to raise a family and put their interest in Fiero's aside. Today I would say the audience has aged and the majority of Fiero owners are now middle age, and seniors. I see many of them returning to the hobby and many still in it. Point is I don't see that all the Fieros that were owned by the youth back then are gone. Some were garaged, put in storage, and sold to new collectors. This is reflected in the forum membership.
Don’t over think my comment. It was a little dark humor based on the number of people we posted lost. The sad part is I met many of them over the years. I just pray God grants me more time.
You also have to consider I am an original owner from 85 but I was lucky to buy young.
The reality is there is still a lot of Fiero’s around and until there is a time where you have to wait to find one for sale they are not going to be rare. They built a crap load of these and unlike a Cavalier that people trash like a Bic lighter there is an higher amount of these cars than most.
The truth is there are less MR2 models and first Gen RX7 models as most other sports car models that were sold and built in much fewer numbers.
I know some are looking to turn the Fiero into the next Cobra or Dino but that is not going to happen.
Originally posted by reinhart:How many historical members are still active and still owners though?
i wonder how many posted at least once in the past year (2021)?
Anyone know?
------------------ Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.
Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 3800SC, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
Seemingly not a lot. I used to (Mid 2000's) be able to pick up a GT for a couple hundred bucks. I can't even get body parts off one for anything I'd consider reasonable. "Oh, you want a front fascia? $400. . ."
