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An Unusual Problem with Tire Inflation by Dennis LaGrua
Started on: 11-05-2021 03:08 PM
Replies: 25 (335 views)
Last post by: Patrick on 12-04-2021 03:04 AM
Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-05-2021 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I experienced a problem this morning the likes of which I have never seen. I have one Fiero that is kept outside and it was time to air up the tires. Started the compressor, took out the air hose, removed the air cap and put the air chuck on the tire stem- nothing. No air was entering the tire. Tried a new air chuck, replaced the stem valve-still no air would go into the tire. I finally removed the valve and probed down in the stem with a handle end small Allen wrench. It encountered a blockage so I just pushed it on through. Put back the air valve in and now the tire began to inflate.
Last evening it was 27* F outside and apparently what happened was that a drop of water got lodged in the valve stem turned to ice and that blocked the air from entering the tire. Air hoses develop condensation and that caused just enough ice to develop and be a problem. Has anyone else had this happen? .

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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Report this Post11-05-2021 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

removed the air cap...

Last evening it was 27* F outside and apparently what happened was that a drop of water got lodged in the valve stem turned to ice and that blocked the air from entering the tire.


So even though there was a cap on the valve, a drop of water somehow got in the valve stem and froze solid? Can't say I've ever experienced that in 47 years of maintaining my cars!

Was the last compressor you used filling your tires with as much water as it was air?

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Report this Post11-06-2021 07:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's always best to change over to 'winter air' before the first frost . Yes it is advisable to have a dryer on your compressor line and to drain the compressor of moisture a coupe times a year.
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Report this Post11-06-2021 08:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LT188GTClick Here to Email LT188GTSend a Private Message to LT188GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I NEVER had that problem, but I live in Miami. On January 19 1977 it did snow in Miami and it lasted for 1 1/2 hour and hit a low of 31*
I do not remember if I put air in the Fiero tires, but of course Fieros were not made back then.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-06-2021 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes they can freeze. Generally in cars that sit in cold. Once you drive the heat from the brakes heat the wheel and melt the moisture.
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Report this Post11-06-2021 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Last evening it was 27* F outside and apparently what happened was that a drop of water got lodged in the valve stem turned to ice and that blocked the air from entering the tire. Air hoses develop condensation and that caused just enough ice to develop and be a problem. Has anyone else had this happen? .
Yes, I have and many times.

And Common "air drier" units used by most won't help much or at all. Worse... that often freeze if installed in any place w/ no heat or heat turn off/low.
Driers are simply traps and even if water doesn't freeze sitting it them, in low/no heat places then can be useless or freeze the guts and no/low air getting thru.

Real Driers are Very expensive, often connected to sanitary sewers or rain water plumbing and use Heat Pumps on 240vac or even 3 phase power. Most people have never seen them because even big places don't use them or it's hidden or people have no clue WTF looking at when they see them.

Drain the compressor. That is 1st place water builds up.
If have a "drier" Empty that too.
Many needs to drain both Daily.

Even then plenty of water often builds up in soft and hard lines down stream of those.
Use blower tip to flow enough air to move water out of them.
Then use a chunk or air tools.

Note: Fix-a-flat et al often does same in cold weather. And even if the can is warm to near heat limit on the label before trying them. If you get the can in the tire, often won't inflate right until driving. Even then maybe low and need more air ASAP and watch PSI until fix/replace the tire.

⚠️ Warning:
Do Not use Air "Anti Freeze" use by the Trucking Industry. This is often 100% Alcohol that can wreck most air tools, shop hoses, and more. Depending on exact Alcohol type, Can Hurt or Kill You as you breath in Fumes or gets on you.
● Failing to empty water from Compressor Tanks is Near 100% why compressor tanks blow up. Polluted Water sits in them and tank rots inside out until too weak to hold normal working pressure. If a tank is hard to get at etc... Then add more drain plumbing or even add some type of auto drain.

Even small 1 to 3 gallon tanks can hold a lot of water. More so when used for nail guns etc for roofers and related.

Side Note: Ever been near a truck at stoplights etc and hear bust of air but sounds more of a leak not brakes? That an Air "Drier" w/ Auto Dumping. Most are floats make dump valve to open. If dumps often then have system problems or have wet air > 65% Relative Humidity.

------------------
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[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-06-2021).]

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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-06-2021 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We drained compressors every night in the shop on daily use. My home shop I drain it and leave it open on every use since it is not used daily.

If you run long lines you can and should use water traps especially if you paint.
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Report this Post11-06-2021 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Look up "Franzinator". Supposed to be very effective for removing moisture from the system.
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Report this Post11-06-2021 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have never ran into that but I do remember going to school in the morning and it was so cold the night before the tires had flat spots until they warmed up.
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Report this Post11-06-2021 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Next time you have a blockage in the valve stem in those frozen temps, why don’t you try using a blow dryer on it for a few minutes? Just an idea.
Kit
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Report this Post11-06-2021 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

...why don’t you try using a blow dryer on it for a few minutes?


No doubt considerably safer than using a propane torch!

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Report this Post11-08-2021 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting I haven't ever had that happen, grew up in WI and MN. I would think you'd have to have a perfect amt of moisture in there and a valve stem leak? When my in tire moisture froze it must have never made it to the stem hole 1st.
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Report this Post11-08-2021 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for formulaWASend a Private Message to formulaWAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I always leave the drain valve in the bottom of my compressor open just a little so any water is continuously leaking out. If not used compressor will go from from 120 lbs to 0 in a few days
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Report this Post11-09-2021 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
Have never ran into that but I do remember going to school in the morning and it was so cold the night before the tires had flat spots until they warmed up.
Many times that is how tires are made.
Think Tires made w/ Rayon and Kevlar often doesn't cold weather.
I don't know anyone now w/ Aramid/Kevlar belts replacing Steel belts for cars. Sears (Goodyear?) had them Decades ago. Still available for other things.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-16-2021 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking back, I believe what happened was that we had condensation in the air compressor lines/tank and when you refill your tires with air, just enough water gets in there to plug the valve stem when it ices up. The compressor has a 60 gallon tank and a water trap but the trap is not fool proof. I would believe that a complete drain and periodic blow out is necessary to avoid this.
UPDATE: Opened the drain valve on the water trap and no water came out. The trap is a large one at about 12" long by 4" in diameter.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 11-16-2021).]

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Report this Post11-18-2021 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwClick Here to Email cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
I experienced a problem this morning the likes of which I have never seen. I have one Fiero that is kept outside and it was time to air up the tires. Started the compressor, took out the air hose, removed the air cap and put the air chuck on the tire stem- nothing.


Ahh, too funny. Not related but, I have a John Deere subcompact tractor. I went to check and inflate tires if needed. The tire stems were at about the six o'clock position. Water started being pushed out, due to the air pressure.

Dammit I was thinking. Turns out that John Deere adds water inside the tire for ballast, to keep the tractor from overturning.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-18-2021 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


Ahh, too funny. Not related but, I have a John Deere subcompact tractor. I went to check and inflate tires if needed. The tire stems were at about the six o'clock position. Water started being pushed out, due to the air pressure.

Dammit I was thinking. Turns out that John Deere adds water inside the tire for ballast, to keep the tractor from overturning.


That sounds very strange. Water would eventually just rust out the rim. If I would guess you probably had accumulated water in the compressor hose. In the past liquid calcium was added to farm tractor tires to make them heavier but only as an add on.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
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Report this Post11-18-2021 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:

Turns out that John Deere adds water inside the tire for ballast, to keep the tractor from overturning.


And to think, years ago I had bought cast iron wheel weights for the front of my John Deere rider mower. Silly me!
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Report this Post11-20-2021 06:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The most unusual problem with tire inflation occurs at the gas station i swear the software can't be that bad but the service station attendant keeps turning the compressor off and on. So today i called the bluff as first tire inflated fine so second tire seemed they turned off the air so left car in the prime spot as attendant walked past to tell me i must hold valve in place i said just turn compressor on so i can. Then i could inflate 2 more tires no problem then the last tire compressor turned off and every effort for more air let just out more air so i stayed and again told them to turn compressor on eventually inflated all tires and they lost 2 customers all over not wanting to give air free. This problem is not so unusual if you didn't need to buy gas some ******* will play with the power on the compressor. So rather than let me use the free air they turn it off so now block more customers so glad i can demonstrate logic and probability to local business eg i need to still buy gas next week. The gas attendant took a photo of my license plate after 1 tire and in spite already turned off compressor but i just waited them out more ****** words.

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 11-20-2021).]

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Report this Post11-20-2021 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Australian:

The most unusual problem with tire inflation occurs at the gas station... i swear the software can't be that bad but the service station attendant keeps turning the compressor off and on.


I was having a similar problem, but it seemed to me that the gas station air compressor was set to a maximum of 35 psi, and wouldn't come back on until the pressure dropped to maybe 25 psi. I'd have to manually hold the compressor tire valve open to deplete the compressor pressure to below whatever the minimum pressure setting was for the compressor to kick back on again. I'd be able to top up one tire, and then have to go through the whole process again for the next tire. It was such a friggen waste of time.

Until one day while walking the hound, I discovered an "Air Machine" that someone had left at the curbside because the tire valve on the end of the hose was missing. I happened to have a orphaned tire valve at home, so I spliced it onto the hose... and it works perfectly. With it being 120v, I find it to be much much more powerful than the usual 12v units. I now no longer have to deal with all the nonsense of gas station air compressors (which are now mostly not free to use).

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-20-2021).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post12-02-2021 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For people that want their own compressors for tire inflation, the state of the art has really improved in recent years. I have a cheap portable 12V Harbor Freight unit that I carry for emergencies. It can inflate a tire from 20 psi to 35 psi in about 2-3 minutes. The 5 HP 230V compressor with 60 gal tank in the garage set to 120 psi can inflate a completely flat tire in less than 15 seconds.
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Report this Post12-02-2021 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I have a cheap portable 12V Harbor Freight unit that I carry for emergencies. It can inflate a tire from 20 psi to 35 psi in about 2-3 minutes.


Is that with the weight of the car on the tire(s)? The reason I ask, is that in addition to the 120v compressor that I discussed above, I also have an awful 12v unit. This 12v compressor seems to struggle unless the car/tire is jacked up off of the ground. I acknowledge that perhaps it's just this particular compressor that sucks (figuratively speaking ), but it's discouraged me from ever bothering to use a 12v compressor again.
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Report this Post12-03-2021 07:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for reinhartClick Here to Email reinhartSend a Private Message to reinhartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

For people that want their own compressors for tire inflation, the state of the art has really improved in recent years. I have a cheap portable 12V Harbor Freight unit that I carry for emergencies. It can inflate a tire from 20 psi to 35 psi in about 2-3 minutes. The 5 HP 230V compressor with 60 gal tank in the garage set to 120 psi can inflate a completely flat tire in less than 15 seconds.


I have a $20 unit I got at pep boys a decade ago. Never had a problem and I have 12 tires to maintain. Takes 2 minutes max per tire to top off from 28-35 for instance. I thought everyone had one of these? Gas station is fast only takes like 20 seconds per tire lol.

Dennis, how did you remove the valve stem from the tire with the tire mounted on the rim? Thought you had to have the tire off to get the valve stem out.
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Report this Post12-03-2021 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
Turns out that John Deere adds water inside the tire for ballast, to keep the tractor from overturning.
Not just JD but a lot of other slow moving things have "Loaded Tires."
(Likely installed by a dealer not the tracker factory.)

⚠️ Warning: Often isn't just water.
Most uses Calcium and water and maybe Antifreeze in "up north" states.

Many "trackers" have Loaded Tires and Wheel Weights and more. "To keep the tractor from overturning" is unlikely reason for most. More like to get more traction.
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Report this Post12-03-2021 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by reinhart:
Dennis, how did you remove the valve stem from the tire with the tire mounted on the rim? Thought you had to have the tire off to get the valve stem out.
There are tools to replace rubber stems w/o removing the tire but not recommended by most stem makers.

Won't help w/ metal stems w/ or w/o under inflation sensors.

If careful w/ normal tires, often can break just outer bead to fix the stem w/o causing balance problems.
Run Flats and very low profiles isn't normal and can fight you trying same.
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Report this Post12-04-2021 03:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Many "trackers" have Loaded Tires and Wheel Weights and more. "To keep the tractor from overturning" is unlikely reason for most. More like to get more traction.


I had to buy wheel weights for the rider mower I was using on a relatively large property that had quite an incline in some areas. I found that without heavy iron wheel weights up front, the mower wouldn't turn when going uphill!

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