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Omitting the spare and carrying tire inflator? by Kitskaboodle
Started on: 04-17-2021 11:24 PM
Replies: 20 (432 views)
Last post by: theogre on 05-02-2021 12:45 AM
Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post04-17-2021 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just curious how many Fiero owners have opted to simply carry Slime / Fix-A-Flat, etc instead of carrying their spare? (or maybe you carry both but use the spare onlyas a crush zone for front end accidents?)

Thankfully, in all the years I have been driving Fiero’s I have never had a flat. (2004) And if I did, I would have been forced to put the flat tire onto my passenger side seat since I have always ran 17X7’s.

And before you ask, I’m well aware of issues that sealant cause with tire sensors, wheel corrosion, messy to clean up, tire shops giving you hell, etc. Although, some of them do claim they are water soluble and wash off.
But hey, when your miles from home it’s a lifesaver.

With all that said, have you gone the Slime / Fix-A-Flat route on your Fiero?
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Report this Post04-18-2021 12:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have bigger brakes and did not want to fool with getting a different spare to fit. I have a can of fix-a-flat instead. I also have proper insurance to cover something more serious than a can if need be. I fortunately have not had to use either. Drove from New Mexico to Pennsylvania and back in 2019 no problems. Albeit brand new tires though. I have owned a few newer cars that do not have spare tires from the factory so I am not overly concerned about it anymore.
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Report this Post04-18-2021 10:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most only works w/ small to very small holes in the tread zone. Don't remove screws etc before using them or often can't find a leak to fix later. If you must remove, mark sidewall showing where is was.

Bigger problem to many is Fix-A-Flat and most other brands are useless in cold weather.
● Most can freeze in the "can" but exact Temp of that depends on formula.
● Any aerosols can freeze in the tube during use in cold temp and weather above 32°F/0°C because propellant expanse and cools more.

This is partly why some car makers have non-aerosol "cans" and compressor. Compress Air pushes out the chemicals then fill the tire.

I get most tires thru NTB for years w/ warranty and have used "Fix-A-Flat" a few times and never had problems there. Is cheaper for them to repair if possible to not replace a tire.

⚠️ Warning:
Many "Fix-A-Flat" aerosols are still Flammable and Tire can Explode working on these tire after. So RTFL
..."Air" release when valve is pulled
...Tire still have some propellant after valve is pulled
People, tire machine etc can spark causing "Boom."
That is why many shops hate you for using them w/o telling the shop.

Why/When? This started at "Save the Ozone" time because most aerosols switch from CFC to Propane Butane etc for propellants. You have a mix of air and Propane etc in a tire and if not stoic now, easily to reach stoic mix when working on them.

Note: Repairs have rules even w/o "Fix-A-Flat." In Very Short, Holes can't be near the side walls because patches and plugs need flat tread area to work or uses the steel belting to hold. Steel belts are weaker at the sides.

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Report this Post04-18-2021 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am concerned about a little bit but I haven't been running a spare in my GT or an inflator although usually I have another Fiero that my wife drives when we go to events, ie...longer trips, that car has a stock spare. This particular car has a battery up front and amp up front so no spare until I decide if I want to move the amp. On top of that my front tires are smaller than my rears...
Been this way 5 years.
I should probly move the amp and put a spare up there I suppose.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-18-2021).]

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Report this Post04-18-2021 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I haven't ran a spare in my Fieros in 20 years and probably logged about 200K miles w/o one.
I carry a can of fix-a-flat, plug kit, and a tiny air compressor. With 13" brake kit and tires that no local tire shop would stock, if these items won't let me keep driving, then it gets put on a flat bed.

Several years back I put together a small tool kit that fits within the Pontiac Accessory Bag. It includes everything in the picture and I have circled the compressor and the plug kit.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/097633.html
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Report this Post04-18-2021 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Related, whats a reliable recommended small 12v compressor?
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theogre
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Report this Post04-18-2021 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Related, whats a reliable recommended small 12v compressor?
Very cheap ones work but often hose fails as compressor end because of heat.
Small ones w/ fins exposed on the compressor to cool down are better. cost ~ $50 to $80
Quick Example: https://www.harborfreight.c...ompressor-63184.html
They will usually fill a normal size tire for car and smaller trucks from total flat w/o overheat killing power until cool again.

If have Ryobi etc 18/20V battery tools... try Inflators and Inflator/Deflator Tools.
Quick examples:
https://www.homedepot.com/p...-Only-P747/308746324
https://www.homedepot.com/p...Only-P737D/307627867

Can use them on long trips but don't leave them in a car forever. Batteries do not last long if getting too hot or cold in storage.
I have a older version of Ryobi Inflator/Deflator because way easier then dragging a small 120vac compressor or just long hose outside then wind up after. Works quite fast to top up 4 tires.
Best battery size is 4 - 5 Ahr. Smaller battery ~ 2Ahr works if just to top up a low tire or 4.
Note: Any tool that can run a long time can hate small batteries. Weed trimmers and "leaf" blowers can drain small batteries "dry" fast and kill them. W/ bigger batteries still don't run until battery shuts off.
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Report this Post04-18-2021 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forgot 1 important rule for tire repair...

If you drive on a flat tire...
Very low to total flat then you're F'ed and no-one should help you except to sell a new tire.

Why?
Very low and side walls will have damage. Often even nubes can see damage because outer side will "hit the ground" while turning.
Drive on total flat even a mile often grinds up the rubber inside of tire.

So Even if you "fix" the hole... Death of that tire has already happen and your driving a Time Bomb that can Blow Out Without Warning at Highway Speeds.
That is why Most shops won't fix a lot of flats because doesn't what a lawsuit.

Related Note:
Is a big reason why Ford and Bridgestone fought over tire failure cause SUV rollovers...
Ford reduce Cold Inflation for "safety" and "handling" reasons so now call for ~ 28psi.
If people follow that... very hard Not to be way lower in hours in some places just for Weather changes.
But Bridgestone got totally slammed by Ford and MSM.
IOW Tires may have issues but most cases says Ford makes whatever problems far worse because most owners have No Clue new inflation give 0 "wiggle room" for low tires.
When you see tread separation and/or sidewall blowouts, 90+% of time is from Low inflation making them Flex way more then designed.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post04-19-2021 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In case of a flat tire, I prefer using the Fiero spare, but the truth is that I haven't had a flat tire in years except for one on my property where my tire got ripped apart going over a sharp rock. Flats can happen but one in 20 years isn't a real inconvenience. My son has "run flat" tires on his BMW and perhaps that is the answer to having more trunk space.
There is a highly advertised battery powered tire inflator called the Air Hawk but might be worth checking out but after reading tests on these small compressors the Harbor Freight Pittsburg unit inflates a tire to 35 PSI in about 5 minutes followed by the CJK and the Hyper Tough.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-19-2021).]

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Report this Post04-20-2021 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:


Batteries do not last long if getting too hot or cold in storage.


Yes, Id only be interested in wired ones that can plug to cig lighter or 12v, not battery operated. I have one old one, but its kind of large and could fail any day.
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Report this Post04-20-2021 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Yes, Id only be interested in wired ones that can plug to cig lighter or 12v, not battery operated. I have one old one, but its kind of large and could fail any day.
Compressors and related Plugged in to Cig Lighter and Aux based on them often have problems.
Many come w/ "battery clips" because eat too much power for Cig Lighter plugs.
Other have Cig Plugs but I don't use them. I cut off that for a cheap unit had years ago because plug broke and use spare small "battery clips." Think still have it but have not used in 10+ years.

Some have Cig plug w/ adapter w/ clips... But Most adapters suck too.

⚠️ Note: If you cut off Cig Plug... Most plugs have a fuse. So need inline fuse and clips to replace it.

Even if the sockets can handle the Amps, the plugs often don't grip and stay tight causing sparks etc. that can heats the socket. Many plugs break and can short out the socket. Either might blow a fuse or start a fire. I hate most Cig Plugs for this reason for Phones, dash cams, etc.

Cig Lighter itself draws a lot of power but only heat up and pops in a few seconds to ~ 1 minute max so socket etc won't heat up too.
Fiero Cig Sockets have "Crow bar" but most don't have anything to prevent big problems.
(See my Cave, Lighter)
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Report this Post04-20-2021 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After relocating the battery I removed the spare. Got AAA. Not the brightest idea, however of all the issues/breakdowns that I've had, a flat hasn't been one of them.
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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post04-20-2021 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Live my Airhawk inflator. 😊
It is more than up to the task to inflate 4 or more tires that are a good 5+ pounds down or more.
And it was less than $45.00
See pic of it.....
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Report this Post04-27-2021 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for robymonSend a Private Message to robymonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I purchased a Viair 70p from 4wheelonline because it was cheap. This portable compressor can inflate my tires pretty quickly. It comes with a long power cord, and the pressure gauge is accurate.
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Report this Post04-28-2021 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierojpClick Here to visit fierojp's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierojpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I immediately removed the spares/jacks on all 3 of my Fieros mainly for the weight savings. I mounted the battery up there on 2 of those cars.

I didn't carry fix-a-flat and I also got lucky with no flats in over 100,000 miles of driving! This was before everyone had cell phones. Now, if you get a flat, just call someone to bring your spare...
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Report this Post04-28-2021 10:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierojp:
I immediately removed the spares/jacks on all 3 of my Fieros mainly for the weight savings. I mounted the battery up there on 2 of those cars.

I didn't carry fix-a-flat and I also got lucky with no flats in over 100,000 miles of driving! This was before everyone had cell phones. Now, if you get a flat, just call someone to bring your spare...
True but mean calling a Tow Co for many and that can cost a lot of $...

Could join AAA et al but that cost $ every year = or > then a Tow Bill in the end. (Yes, I know... AAA offer other things like TripTik to plan trips or AAA discounts for other places but almost no-one uses them or very rarely.)

My Car insurance have a Towing option that cost far less then AAA and others.
I can use whatever service and send bill to I-co days to month later to get 100% payback.
I once lost a bill, found ~ 2 years later and I-co still paid. Agent Did have to call national office to check had this option at the time but took ~ 10 minutes.
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Report this Post04-30-2021 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After reading all the posts here, I feel a good solution would be to carry a tool bag with a plug kit. Many of the 12V compressors sold today can inflate a flat tire to full pressure in 5 minutes or less. As long as you have your jack, get the tire off the ground, slowly spin them and try and locate and remove the offending object. Then fix the hole with the rope type plug. Many of these kits are self sealing. Obviously this won't help with a blowout.
One issue is that if you retain your spare, are traveling long distance with another, and your trunk is full where do you store the flat tire while you drive to get the flat fixed? Those with baggage racks have the idea setup but those that don't might want to carry a few bungee cords and a small blanket to cover and fasten the flat to the deck lid. I say this because I do not believe that a standard tire will fit where the spare is or will it?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post04-30-2021 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
After reading all the posts here, I feel a good solution would be to carry a tool bag with a plug kit. Many of the 12V compressors sold today can inflate a flat tire to full pressure in 5 minutes or less. As long as you have your jack, get the tire off the ground, slowly spin them and try and locate and remove the offending object. Then fix the hole with the rope type plug. Many of these kits are self sealing. Obviously this won't help with a blowout.
One issue is that if you retain your spare, are traveling long distance with another, and your trunk is full where do you store the flat tire while you drive to get the flat fixed? Those with baggage racks have the idea setup but those that don't might want to carry a few bungee cords and a small blanket to cover and fasten the flat to the deck lid. I say this because I do not believe that a standard tire will fit where the spare is or will it?
None of the OE tires will fit in the Spare Tire well. Is covered in most or all of Fiero OM and also a problem in other vehicles.

Besides "Doughnut spares" that Fiero uses, other "space saver" spares have been used and OE tires often don't fit in the spare tire well/spot either.
AMC had a space saver spare for Gremlin and others that was stored totally "flat" and Inflater Can to use it. Very weird to see it "grow" to be a full size spare. Ford GM and Chrysler used same for some cars in ~ 1970's too. (B.F.Goodrich Space Saver Tire) (Warning: Ebay etc sell them @ Gold Prices for a 50+ year old tire... Good help any dumb enough to actually use them.)

Many new cars don't even have a spare or even a place for them if you try to buy one. That's w/ or w/o "run flat" tires on a car.
Big reason It affects car marker's bottom line because any weight added/removed will affect CAFE points from EPA and related in other Countries. Because a change in Total CAFE points can mean car makers can loose or add Millions of $ in the US alone. (That's ignoring whatever cost to design and install a spare.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 04-30-2021).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post04-30-2021 02:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since I have big brakes and moved my battery to the front, there doesn't seem to be a viable option for a spare. I bought a deluxe kit with plugs, a compressor, and Slime (to be used as a last resort.)
I figured that if that was good enough for most new cars, it was good enough for my application.
I'm not going to jinx myself and say that I've never had to use it, but I've sure used it for other cars that I've had around, that happened to pick up a nail or (usually) sheet metal screw.
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Report this Post05-01-2021 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wasn't the spare also part of the impact zone? I have never had to use one but all of my cars had one.
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Report this Post05-02-2021 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
Wasn't the spare also part of the impact zone? I have never had to use one but all of my cars had one.
While Is In the front "crumple zone" very likely doesn't do much if any to protect you. Spare tire is only attach to the plastic wall. Having it there might stop somethings trying to piece the front but that's only if the thing hits the rim.

But People w/ Battery move there can have problem in a crash.
Battery can pull out of whatever mod used for doing this. Group 75 and similar battery weighs ~ 33lb can turn into cannon ball fast in a wreck in a "battery box" can't handle this.
Metal "boxes" and other parts can Short the Battery.
Some mods do allow the spare tire too and that can Short out the battery.

A Battery, even heavily damage ones, in a Short Circuit can easily dump 300+ Amps and start a fire.
This is what fuses, fusible links, etc, are really protecting you ageist.

Many Claim the battery is only hold down by plastic block in the OE location... Not fully true plus many miss uses big bolt w/ captive washer and other side is all metal.
● If the "box" isn't rusted out etc, that base hold down setup will hold the battery in very bad crashes to meet DOT rules.
● Fiero OE "battery box" has front wall welded to frame to hold the battery if gets loose in some crashes. Many other models have similar designs to limit travel if mounting fails.

⚠️ If your battery block doesn't have a big head bolt or captive washer covering a lot of the block... very likely some fool lost the OE hardware.
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