Update on my Fiero Serach!

I found an 88 GT in Los Angeles. I got a chance to test drive it and I really like it. It's a crimson color with tan interior. The Fiero does feel smaller than the MR2, surprisingly, but I didn't feel cramped. The car definitely needed work, but I could tell the owner really cared for the car and enjoyed his time with it. Also it was signed by Comedian Kevin Heart, which was interesting. Here's the low down.

Exterior 6/10
The paint is fine for the most part but some typical red-light collisions while he was in S.F. left spidercracks on the front and rear bumper. A moped that hit the rear bumper also left a big gash on the right side where clutch handle carved into the fiberglass. Fixable, and I would like to try repainting the car anyways. I also wanted to replace the black trim with LED neon tube lighting because I'm a sucker for the cyberpunk aesthetic. Taillights looked okay, with just a little bit of separation occurring at the top on the left side.

Interior 7/10
It's dirty and needs some things tightened down, and the headboard is sagging and may need replacing. It has an aftermarket stereo, and the plastic trim piece over the driver seat adjustments was missing. The electronic hood release also wasn't working. The issue may be the switch itself as the owner said it doesn't click anymore. The steering column is wobbling and the key cylinder itself needs to be worked over because it's quite stiff.

Mechanical 6/10
The engine is from an '87 GT and the owner deleted the EGR and catalytic converter. It sounded sexy, I'll give it that, but I'm a boy scout and I'll probably put those things back on. He said he has a new cat for it somewhere and new shifter cables. Speaking of which, The left-right shifter cable is seized and I'll need to replace that. I can still get it into gear If I plan ahead, but reverse took both hands. He told me I would need to check the coolant level every couple weeks because it just disappears. He says he's never seen a sign of it being a headgasket issue, and neither did I, so he thinks there's a coolant leak somewhere he hasn't found. I understand that the Fiero has a similar issue to the MR2, wherein lifting it from the wrong place can damage piping. I think this might be the cause if the owner hasn't found it yet. I noticed that the brake pedal felt extremely weak and almost felt like it had steps to it. The brakes still worked ~okay~ but stopping took more time than I figured it might. The clutch pedal felt extremely tough and it had a lot of its action at the bottom of the stroke. I'd like to figure that out. All in all still drivable, but I'd feel better towing it all the way to Livermore. I also noticed the left tail pipe sagging a bit. AC compressor may be seized but I'm willing to bet it's leaking and the low pressure stopped it (he already cut the belt). Serpentine Belt squeaks, but I could barely hear it.

Electrical 8/10
For the most part all of the indicators and gauges on the dash worked. one weird thing was that the oil gauge dropped to low and swung around a lot when the car was at a stop. I'm not sure if this was related to me being on the brake and clutch pedal or if it's just how that gauge works, but it looks normal while driving. The seller told me he thinks the batter is due for replacement because it's getting old and causing the keyless entry (aftermarket, I'm sure) to act up. The Rear trunk release doesn't work, as stated above. The left headlight just started to act lazy according to the owner. I don't know if it just needs some TLC or if this is related to electrical. Everything else worked.

He has it registered as non-op, but it still has a 2020 sticker on the license plate. I could probably drive it back without the cops getting on me, but for the reasons described above I'd prefer to tow it.

Seller is asking $5,550 and it has 153k miles. With everything above, that's way too much. I want to offer $3k. We really hit it off so I think he'll understand. If he doesn't then it just wasn't meant to be.

quote Originally posted by samxerxesn: Seller is asking $5,550 and it has 153k miles. With everything above, that's way too much. I want to offer $3k.

Even at $3,000 it may not be much of a deal. Your list of issues is impressively done... and should serve as a warning. This Fiero will be requiring a lot of work.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Even at $3,000 it may not be much of a deal. Your list of issues is impressively done... and should serve as a warning. This Fiero will be requiring a lot of work.

I second this.

It won't pass ca smog without EGR and Cat.
Did he remove the EGR solenoid? Was it still working? Do you now have to find a working one?

Edit.
87 engine in an 88... Did they swap the fly wheel? Miss matching 88 and pre 88 fly wheels can cause balance issues.

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-25-2021).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Even at $3,000 it may not be much of a deal. Your list of issues is impressively done... and should serve as a warning. This Fiero will be requiring a lot of work.

I'm perfectly aware. I'm actually looking for something that needs a lot of work because I want to be able to make the car exactly what I want, like I've been doing with my MR2.

quote Originally posted by samxerxesn: I'm perfectly aware. I'm actually looking for something that needs a lot of work because I want to be able to make the car exactly what I want...

You can find a Fiero project car for $200, but suit yourself.

quote Originally posted by skywurz: I second this. It won't pass ca smog without EGR and Cat. Did he remove the EGR solenoid? Was it still working? Do you now have to find a working one? Edit. 87 engine in an 88... Did they swap the fly wheel? Miss matching 88 and pre 88 fly wheels can cause balance issues.

He still has the EGR and he's looking for the catalytic converter he bought for it.

The car felt smooth, so I doubt he used the 88 flywheel. Still, It will live in my garage for a while until I get it sorted and the rest of the build planned out.

[This message has been edited by samxerxesn (edited 03-25-2021).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: You can find a Fiero project car for $200, but suit yourself.

I also second this.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: You can find a Fiero project car for $200, but suit yourself.

Not so easy in CA, unfortunately. Even a Fiero shell sitting in a field without a title was listed at $1500, and that kind of thing was a little beyond me :\

quote Originally posted by samxerxesn: Not so easy in CA, unfortunately. Even a Fiero shell sitting in a field without a title was listed at $1500, and that kind of thing was a little beyond me :\

Being in CA i respectfully disagree. Im on a running average of 550 per car none were shells. 75% ran eventually. You just have to be fast and know where to look. Id sell you a shell with a junk title for 500 Actually ill probably send that one to pnp. i want the roof off of it and with my track record that's going to leave me -1 good roof.

quote Originally posted by skywurz: EGR and the EGR solenoid are 2 different things. I recommend doing some research on the Fiero EGR solenoid. They are a pita to come by working.

I found this post. I assume this is what you mean: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122507.html

I'll ask the owner about it. I feel comfortable fixing it as described, or looking for one in a junk yard. Is the 88 solenoid different in any way? Thanks for the tip.

quote Originally posted by samxerxesn: I found this post. I assume this is what you mean: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122507.html I'll ask the owner about it. I feel comfortable fixing it as described, or looking for one in a junk yard. Is the 88 solenoid different in any way? Thanks for the tip.

Perfect thats the exact one. They are all the same. But its a v6 Fiero only part.

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-25-2021).]

New Development.

Another car seems to have fallen into my lap. Someone in San Diego PMed me about an 87 GT manual in Blue with a CA smogged 3.4L swap. Car is in worse shape and has $757 in back fees, but it is much cheaper at $2000. Mileage is much higher at 180k... Still, that would be my lowest mileage car lol

Carfax is clean, but it shows that it did not pass it's last smog test because the wrong intake was on the car.

Here are some pictures: https://drive.google.com/dr...N0tUKMYd?usp=sharing

Owner claims all it needs is to have the old fuel cleaned out and check all the plugs. It's an interesting option. I'm going to try to see it on Saturday.

I'll also make an offer to the owner of the 88 GT. I hope he doesn't take offense to the low amount.

You can use some tricks to get the back fees waved at dmv. Just put that in your back pocket.

Is it a reffed 3.4 or a sneaky 3.4 swap?

Edit:
For the price (assuming you get the fees waved by dmv using tricks you can google VC9562) I like it if its been reffed. Only so so if you have to swap a Fiero embossed intake onto it to be sneaky. It is Blue and has potential.

Edit: Edit:
What miles are on the engine?

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-26-2021).]

quote Originally posted by skywurz: Is it a reffed 3.4 or a sneaky 3.4 swap? Edit: For the price... I like it if its been reffed. Only so so if you have to swap a Fiero embossed intake onto it to be sneaky.

There won't be a "Fiero embossed intake" swapped onto this 3.4 engine. DOHC

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-26-2021).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: There won't be a "Fiero embossed intake" swapped onto this 3.4 engine. DOHC

See this is why i was not sure and was iffy "so so". hoped someone would chime in lol. I cant remember off hand what ones swap and what ones dont. so it has to be reffed or nothing.


Edit: adding a shameless parts plug. If you are put off because of the suspension I may have a full 88 rear cradle + suspension + brakes available 30 or so min north of you for a reasonable price. Scope creep your project with a rear 88 suspension swap

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-26-2021).]

I think I'm a little lost. Does the stock Fiero intake not fit onto the 3.4L engine, and therefore it cannot be properly smogged? the owner claims that it does have the sticker on the door frame showing that it passed bar at some point.

Perhaps the owner had a different intake than the one in the Pics installed. If it has the bar sticker that means the 3.4 was legitimized for use in that car. The 3.4 has to be as it was in the vehicle it came from. This means if he tossed some fancy chrome intake it would not go...

Also maybe by intake he was talking the tube from the air-box to the throttle body.

In CA the cold air intake tube is NOT covered by BAR as long as it has the original tube connects for egr or whatever. However as we all know smog people ignore or do not know the law. They will say it does not have a CARBs sticker so no go on the cold air intake. Well BAR has not will not issue CARB stickers for those as they are typically direct replacements (if they have the right ports as said.).OE equivalent replacement parts do not need CARB stickers or approval. But if you roll into the smog shop with an OE equivalent Edelbrock aluminum intake they will fail you on the spot. This would be a wrongful failure as that intake being OE equivalent would not need CARB approval CARB even says so.

So id get clarification.

Just want to clarify- That is a 3.4 >>DOHC<< swap, so no relation to the Fiero 2.8 L44 or even the 3.4 F-body swap. That engine must be refereed before it will be legal. I believe they had a few different manifolds for that engine so maybe he swapped to a "Better looking" manifold but is not exactly what came with that engine originally.


I did a 5.0 FI V8 swap into my 1973 Mustang- everything had to work, no trouble codes and then took it to referee station and got certified (The engine! (I have been certifiable for years!) They want the control systems on the engine to work like original- no modifications.

looks like it went to a Ref on 02/27/2008 03:05 p.m.

last pass was 2012 it had an abort in 2013 probably due to whatever the Tech did not like.

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-26-2021).]

I located an old listing of the car im sending to OP. It clearly has a non stock manifold in the pictures and the AD says stock manifold included. Also shows the CA Ref sticker.

quote Originally posted by skywurz: looks like it went to a Ref on 02/27/2008 03:05 p.m. last pass was 2012 it had an abort in 2013 probably due to whatever the Tech did not like.

This is what I saw as well. He sent me the ticket given by the ref explaining that the intake wasn't the right one.

I'm excited to see the car, though the state of the interior gives me pause. Everybody's been telling me that the interior is the more difficult part to come by, and these pieces aren't just neglected, they're broken. I've personally noticed tan parts are more common as well, but maybe that's just me. I believe I'll be leaning hard on the community here to help me find and ship the parts that can't be refurbished.

Center armrest is toast but it has all the bezels. Looks moderate. Has 88 seats i think.

quote Originally posted by cvxjet: Just want to clarify- That is a 3.4 >>DOHC<< swap, so no relation to the Fiero 2.8 L44 or even the 3.4 F-body swap.

I thought that mentioning "DOHC" in my post, in addition to including a photo of the 3.4L DOHC engine would clarify things enough, but...

quote Originally posted by Patrick: There won't be a "Fiero embossed intake" swapped onto this 3.4 engine. DOHC

Things seem to be moving forward for me. I haven't gone to see the blue 87 GT yet, but yesterday I did go to see another.

This one was an 88GT that doesn't run, but comes with a whole bunch of extra parts and an LS4 w/ transmission to be swapped in. moving that one will be a bit difficult since it doesn't run and I'd need to find a way to bring all the extra parts with it. It had a little bit of surface rust on one of the strut towers and the battery tray but that was it. Lower miles too I believe. This one is kinda the whole package that I've always wanted, but it comes with the added struggle of getting the LS4 engine BARed.

I've been reading up on the bar, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there's only one big snag, and that's the Exhaust System guidelines:

quote Exhaust System - All exhaust after-treatment devices (catalytic converters, Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF), Diesel Oxidation Catalysts (DOC), Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR), etc.) the donor vehicle was certified to use must be present and positioned under the vehicle in the same linear position within the exhaust stream as measured from the exhaust manifold outlet.

quote i. On the close-coupled end (nearest the engine), within 6 inches, and no closer than the stock configuration ii. On the other devices (rear catalyst, DPF, DOC, SCR, etc.) within 12 inches of the stock configuration

LINEAR distance seems like a hard thing to quantify for me. How is that possible on a mid-engine car when every other car runs it under the vehicle? To make matters more annoying, It's seemingly contradicted by this previous statement:

quote I. Non-OBD II1 certified vehicles receiving an OBD II certified engine must meet the following: a. The donor engine must be in a stock certified configuration, and support ALL the certified OBD II functionality b. Modifications of the intake and exhaust system are permissible only if necessary to accommodate the packaging of the vehicle and only if they do not affect the functionality of the systems. Any changes must not modify the stock functional design of the components (i.e. the intake air box must not be modified, EGR valves still properly mounted, etc.) c. The transmission and evaporative systems will be allowed to remain in the recipient vehicle configuration, but must function appropriately (see i below)

I want to believe that this supersedes the rulings which cover OBDII swaps, meaning that I can move items around to match that Fiero (recipient) and that it doesn't need to bring the donor vehicle evap canister with it (though, maybe I will do this for the sake of everyone's noses).


Ideally I'd like to sit down and talk with a ref to know what they have to say on all of this.

Also here's a link to the vehicle I've been rambling about.

https://offerup.com/item/detail/1092939362/

All i have ever been told about getting something reffed is to just make sure everything is there and don't talk to them about anything IE STFU. A lot of them its up to their discretion. Also cats are not typically that far back on cars the y pipe and down pipe add a couple liner feet. Also you would be keeping it obd1 not going to obd2.


Edit:
Oh ls4 is obd2... I think FieroGuru did this... But not for CA. Then i was going to mention for obd 2 you need the trans and it says it has the trans...

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-28-2021).]

Using others failed projects are a mixed bag. If you can inventory all and access the project it could be a good deal.

As for many it could be a bunch of bad parts and the person finally realized they had a money pit and they just want to unload it.

We have seen many come and go here with high hopes and abilities only to find similar failure.

As for what yo do to make it legal get ahold of CARB now and get every detail from them. I have had many a California customer have a lot of surprises come up in swaps that can be expensive or difficult to overcome.

If there are aftermarket parts make sure the seller has all the EO numbers or the parts can be worthless.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: Using others failed projects are a mixed bag. If you can inventory all and access the project it could be a good deal.

This is actually good advice. However it seems to me like the person only started collecting some of the things to start the project then gave up. Could maybe just go with a 3.4 bottom end or 2.8 rebuild to just pass ca smog without ref. However at 3k that's too much to pay for a car with a blown engine.

A link to Guru's post on this LS4 topic where he mentions other posts. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000123.html

I've bought a lot of vehicles and have looked at a lot of vehicles. Lots of people try to drop money pits on others. I may be a bit bias but i have experienced a higher ratio of these types with Fieros. You can pick them out when they start talking about all of the potential. "Oh man you know they make a Ferrari body kit for these? Yeah you just slap that on and its worth 20k. With the finished LS4 swap that would be like 30k. You know I've spent a lot of time researching this and im pretty much giving you all of the parts you need for that LS4 swap. Im pretty much just giving a 30k car away because i need the extra parking space. " I think its the uncommon part of the Fiero people think they can just BS about what it is.

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-28-2021).]

Am I part of the club now?

It feels great to finally have a Fiero (or two). I'm going to take it slow and be methodical with these. I have so many ideas in my head and I want to do things right. for starters though, I have a "first to fix" list on the blue car.

ignition tumbler feels loose
left/right shift cable is badly seized
gas pedal is on the floor
hand brake seems non-existent
drivers seat wobbles back and forth
air intake system for smog, and cleaning up engine bay in general
front wheels are duck-footed

Congratulations!

So is that the blue one with the swap you had been looking at?

What's up with the white one?

quote Originally posted by skywurz: Congratulations! So is that the blue one with the swap you had been looking at? What's up with the white one?

Yup, that's the blue one with the 3.4L swap. The white one is an 88 gt that came bundled with it for parts. That being said, I might want to rebuild the 88 as a track car with a new drivetrain (it's missing it's transmission and some of the engine).

Truth be told, I don't know if I want to keep the 3.4 in the blue car and build the white one new, or move the 3.4 to the white car and do something else with the blue car. Maybe I'll keep it as is because blue car has the CARB sticker and put a 3800sc in the white car...

Yeah I've got lots of ideas but I should take it slow before I get carried away and pull my self in too many opposing directions.

It is funny how that happens. Heres a Fiero oh and have this other one too that has absolutely 0 parts you actually need for car A.
If the white one has good paperwork and clean title it may be worth restoring.

But i like your plan of attack.

The V-6 Fiero consistantly accelerated from 0-30 in 2.2 seconds.
The Lamborghini Diablo manages 0-30 in 2.2 seconds
A 4-cylinder Fiero belting out only 370 bhp took the NHRA'sCompetition Eliminator title (SD4)
at the Keystone Nationals on September 15, 1985 with a best 1/4-mile time of 9.72 seconds at 134.41 mph.
Several factory prototypes were made of a Fiero convertible.
Two prototypes were made in 1986 of a Fiero with an aluminum frame.
Fiero prototypes were running in 1978.
The Fiero had nearly 3 times as many sales as the MR2 during anygiven year in its life time.
The Fiero was the first American car to win in IMSA GTU.

Car & Driver called the Fiero, "One of the best cars in America" and gave the Fiero a slot in their top ten best category.
The Los Angeles Auto Expo gave the Fiero their Design of the Year Award.
Spectators at the unveiling of the fastback Fiero mistook the GT version as a new Corvette.
GM had a problem of employees purchasing Fieros before the public had an opportunity.
This car is a quarter of a century old now 25 years making it a vintage car.
Australian.
Most replica cars are registered as fieros as easily rebodied over constructing custom chassis.
There have been hundreds of various body panels available overit lifetime for this car.
The latest being a convincing Lamborghini Revolution.
Pontiac even sold a replica Ferrari 308/328 model called the Mera and many Fieros were also converted by dealers. Measurements wheel track performance etc almost identical.
The Fiero has the most amount of rebodies sold as kit cars.

[This message has been edited by Australian (edited 05-15-2021).]