A couple of years ago, I installed the WebElectric Fiero sequential turn signal system (http://www.webelectricproducts.com/) in my Fiero, and it worked great. A couple of months ago I purchased some LEDs to replace the 2057 incandescent bulbs, and after putting in the LEDs and the replacement LED flasher module, the sequential turn signals no longer sequence properly (the LEDs do sequence, but the timing is off and is irregular). My resto shop tried to contact the WebElectric folks for assistance with troubleshooting, but apparently the WebElectric folks weren't willing to work with the guys at my resto shop. Perhaps I purchased bad LEDs...at this point I have reinstalled the normal 2057 bulbs and the sequential is working correctly again; however I would certainly prefer to be able to use the brighter LEDs. If anyone has any suggestions I would be appreciative.
Don't know if it matters but did you also install LED's on the front? I know my standard turn signals didn't function correctly until I also changed the fronts to LED's.
From their QA section. The last sentence is the most important.
Q: Will the sequencers work with aftermarket LED lights?
A: Yes, but...
There are two issues with LED lamps that are used for turn signals. First, since they draw much less current than incandescent light bulbs, the turn signal flasher may not function correctly. A thermal flasher may not get hot enough to cycle, and electronic flashers might think there is a burned out bulb (not enough current flowing) and flash at twice the rate.
You may be able to modify your flasher to work with LEDs, or maybe find a flasher that is not load dependent. However, if you have a car with a special flasher (like a Mustang, for instance), you will have to install a "dummy load" onto at least one of the LED turn signal lamps, most likely the inside one. A dummy load is available from http://www.watsons-streetworks.com.
The other problem is the LED timing. Depending on the number of LEDs in the cluster, or what type of driver is built into it, they can be erratic about sequencing. Usually, they can be stabilized by installing a 1K ohm, 1/2 watt resistor (Radio Shack Cat #271-1118) or equivalent, across each offending LED
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-07-2019).]
I had used the WebElectric setup on a custom 4 tail/brake lightsystem per side on an 85 GT I used to own. I had a similar experience. They initially worked fine then one day the timing between the left and right sides became different. I had only had them for a short time. I sent WebElectric a video of the weirdness and they simply replaced the one that was obviously slower than normal.
I have a half-azz sequential system....I converted my 85 Se V6 to 86-88 GT rear quarters/tail lights...I used the original 1985 tail light harness (I don't like yellow rear turn indicators!)...I was testing some LED bulbs and noticed that they switch on and off much faster than the incandescents..... So I installed one LED on each side inboard and one incandescent outboard and when I hit the turn signal the Inner LED flashes first, then the outer incandescent flashes- Of course, we are only talking 2 bulbs for each side- and when I hit the brakes it flashes outward on both sides, so it's not perfect...But it looks kind of neat......
I made some sequentials for my car which are not affected by the bulb type, documented in this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096492.html Sorry I don't have a solution for your issue other than a full diy approach.
I made some sequentials for my car which are not affected by the bulb type, documented in this thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096492.html Sorry I don't have a solution for your issue other than a full diy approach.
How'd I miss that there were not one, but TWO Fieros with sequential turns at the wine country run? Shame on me!
Mine are four segments -- and yes, I did it just to anger Ogre. So very illegal
Note that I didn't capture the full blink pattern. It starts with all four segments on, just like the factory turn, and then begins the sequential blink you see here.
As with yours, it's Arduino driven. In this case, I used MOSFETs instead of relays. This was on the premise that I distrust mechanical pieces to fail, especially in locations with high vibration like the trunk.
I have a half-azz sequential system....I converted my 85 Se V6 to 86-88 GT rear quarters/tail lights...I used the original 1985 tail light harness (I don't like yellow rear turn indicators!)...I was testing some LED bulbs and noticed that they switch on and off much faster than the incandescents..... So I installed one LED on each side inboard and one incandescent outboard and when I hit the turn signal the Inner LED flashes first, then the outer incandescent flashes- Of course, we are only talking 2 bulbs for each side- and when I hit the brakes it flashes outward on both sides, so it's not perfect...But it looks kind of neat......
That is an interesting thought, and perhaps the most simple method.
On the newer vehicles there are blinkers that are wired together on the front and side, but blink alternately. I'm no electronics person, but a similar simple theory could possibly be used. Apparently, this blinker method relies on each bulb grounding the other. Perhaps the best results for this would be to wire every other buld together in just 2 sets, but I suspect there could be a better solution, using this method.
Theres always some reason to stay with original technology. It worked with regular bulbs so why mess with it...JMO. Just walking thru just about any store, I can find a 'new' or 'improved' product thats not worth a crap. Thats everything from cars to soap. 'New' DAP contact cement, Coke/Pepsi, gasoline, Dawn dish soap are all just a drop in the bucket of inferior stuff Ive personally run through. I still have 60 watt incandescent lights in my house because new ones ive tried burned out in a week or two. LEDs are great if the product was designed for them in the first place. Wiring my trailer with incandescent lights to my motorhome was easy as pie (4 wires...boom), wiring it to the minivan is a royal pita, even have to run a power wire all the way up to the battery.
WEP and others are not design to work w/ LEDs. Plus Many LED "bulbs" have different wiring so some may work and others don't.
Brighter red taillights... use 2357. Turns on faster and a bit bright w/o painting a target on your back. Faster turn on is easy to see. Red lens block most white light so you can't just go by publish Lumen data. Even that often require electronic flasher can replacement because draws more power. See my Cave, Lighbulbs
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Originally posted by rogergarrison: Theres always some reason to stay with original technology. It worked with regular bulbs so why mess with it...JMO. Just walking thru just about any store, I can find a 'new' or 'improved' product thats not worth a crap. Thats everything from cars to soap. 'New' DAP contact cement, Coke/Pepsi, gasoline, Dawn dish soap are all just a drop in the bucket of inferior stuff Ive personally run through. I still have 60 watt incandescent lights in my house because new ones ive tried burned out in a week or two. LEDs are great if the product was designed for them in the first place. Wiring my trailer with incandescent lights to my motorhome was easy as pie (4 wires...boom), wiring it to the minivan is a royal pita, even have to run a power wire all the way up to the battery.
Yup, LED to replace Tungsten have many problems even if you ignore is illegal for cars. Even Sylvania is push them and hide behind "off road use only" BS. Even if you have good LED "Bulbs" and most don't... LEDs hate Heat and often won't last long. Bright LED generate heat they must dump and many fixtures get hot and/or no air to cool them. Good luck w/ "Canbus" LED crap... they can fry themselves or even cause a fire.
Bright or Dim taillight lights screams Ticket Me to cops anywhere you drive. Worse Most White LED are wrong Color Temp etc and red looks pink or purple. Other examples: Many Years ago was a big fad to put purple "gems" in the taillight lenses. More recent a lot put "glow lamps" under the cars and worse. Most places both are illegal too and you fail inspections and cops stop many fools following these fads too. Several towns near me make big $ stopped cars w/ light issues, lowered cars, etc. That before they go fishing for other problems they write tickets w/ Big Fines and Point or even arrest you. Or Cities like Philly's "Live Stop" that can impound the vehicle very easy... "Oh, So you can't find your current Insurance Card? You'll need other transport because I'm calling a tow truck." Expect to pay traffic fines and impound fees costing Hundreds of $ at minimum.
LED replacements for home use have problems too. some common ones... Most hate enclose fixtures because can't dump heat generated by the LED and their power supply. Most can't dim right or not at all even when package say they will. If you have motion lights, auto night lights, etc, most LEDs can't work with them. Many LEDs, like Most CFLs and some standard FL, have a delay to light up. This is mostly very annoying but can be a dangerous problem for somethings like stairways. (Ignoring Most CFL and Standard Tubes hate cold places < ~40°F and light very slow or simply won't light.)
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Note that I didn't capture the full blink pattern. It starts with all four segments on, just like the factory turn, and then begins the sequential blink you see here.
As with yours, it's Arduino driven. In this case, I used MOSFETs instead of relays. This was on the premise that I distrust mechanical pieces to fail, especially in locations with high vibration like the trunk.
I was driving my 86 coupe at the Vine Run and the sequentials are in my 88, so there was no way you could know. Nice idea to use the mosfets. Recently I rebuilt my system in a much smaller enclosure than I had prevoluously (about the size of a Samsung Galaxy Note, but an inch thick) and mounted it under the center console in front of the shifter and now it blinks intermittently when no input is applied, so probably one of the input relays is flickering.
Lots of good real info Ogre. Ive had customers stop in to check their malfunctioning headlights. What ive usually found is they replaced the OEM bulb with like Sylvania super brite ones and melted the back of the headlight housings. Theyre always upset that I tell them they have to buy complete new headlight sets...which can cost $1000 or more.
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Lots of good real info Ogre. Ive had customers stop in to check their malfunctioning headlights. What ive usually found is they replaced the OEM bulb with like Sylvania super brite ones and melted the back of the headlight housings. Theyre always upset that I tell them they have to buy complete new headlight sets...which can cost $1000 or more.
Like people claiming New cars have LED Taillights etc so must be "a good upgrade" and ignoring many new cars have to replace entire fixtures because Factory Installed LED fail from many reason including made to meet RoHS rules. I was behind a Prius a few day ago w/ mostly blown LED taillights... To fix them is often a big job because many are very built into the car and if no warranty then often cost hundreds of $ to get light assemblies from a Dealer. If by some miracle you find a car in a junk yard, those OE LED are often dead too. Newer Big Truck have "Drop in" LED 4" taillight assemblies that often start to fail in a year or three. (Most big trucks use a few standard fixture sizes. 4" round taillight is only 1 of them.) To replace them is easier and much cheaper but publish data claiming would last for decades is crap. Most dealers and aftermarket vendors won't honor warranties for Commercial vehicles. I've seen many new semis etc trucks w/ bad LED and no obvious damage from hitting them or other abuse.
Using them in the proper place is the key. LEDs are inside my 85 interior and performing well. None inside the house yet. None in exterior car lighting. They are on one of my trailers and were a big improvement but seldom used and may not even work anymore. I've got some flame effect LED bulbs on the front of my house that run 24/7. People drove by the house at night just to look at them when I installed them. They're superb fir a little dramatic effect. Looks just like gas lamps. Everybody asks where I got them and I lie every time and just say Amazon. No way I'm going to tell them so they can have exactly what I have.
Originally posted by sourmash: Using them in the proper place is the key. LEDs are inside my 85 interior and performing well. None inside the house yet. None in exterior car lighting. They are on one of my trailers and were a big improvement but seldom used and may not even work anymore. I've got some flame effect LED bulbs on the front of my house that run 24/7. People drove by the house at night just to look at them when I installed them. They're superb fir a little dramatic effect. Looks just like gas lamps. Everybody asks where I got them and I lie every time and just say Amazon. No way I'm going to tell them so they can have exactly what I have.
Internal car use have problems too like Most won't work right w/ the dash dimmer and some "idiot lights" like the alt light. (Alt wants proper 194 bulb filament resistance just to turn on.) Many install "Canbus" LED in the interior that causes problem too because the load resistors in/on them get screaming hot if on for long.
Home light is funny. Many types of "Flame LEDs" are available now.
I have many home 120v units including early Cree sold by HD. Several have died and most are in very open fixtures w/ a lot of air cooling them. 3 Cree have died w/ signs PS section is bad... they blink etc like dying florescent tubes. Others fry 1 or more LED and go totally dead. Cree turn on fast but others have a delay to start like TOGGLED 48" LED tubes I got last year on clearance from HD are 1-3 sec to start, slower then florescent tubes they replace. Old tubes and ballast was good but very old and won't light in cold weather. This LED version you have to cut out the ballast and use less power because of this vs LED that work w/ old ballasts.
