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Mechanic broke my car! by Dragonfish
Started on: 03-02-2018 02:48 PM
Replies: 74 (2451 views)
Last post by: GODFATHER on 03-20-2018 01:57 PM
Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-08-2018 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the passenger side axle. I haven't tried to pop it out yet, but it looks like it's not seated correctly. That gap between the trans and the tripot is pretty huge, over an inch.

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Raydar
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Report this Post03-08-2018 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Went and took a pic. Kind of hard to see for the shadows, but yours does look like there is too much axle exposed.



Edit - Based upon how much axle is showing, there might be a chance that the axle is just not "snapped in" to the differential side gear. Pry against the tulip. I'm pretty sure it will come out.
If it comes out with the snap ring intact, wipe off the smooth machined surface that goes into the seal, and bang it back in, until it looks like my pic. You should be good to go.

If it comes out with the end broken off, you've got some work to do. Still may not have to drop the cradle, however.

2nd Edit - This is what the end of the axle should look like.


A different view. The area with the splines is probably only an inch long. The snap ring is less than 1/4" from the end.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-08-2018).]

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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-08-2018 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think that seal is bad too, there's trans fluid all over the area. After dinner I'm going to jack it up and see if I can seat it better, if not I'll go the other way.
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Raydar
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Report this Post03-08-2018 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:

I think that seal is bad too, there's trans fluid all over the area. ...


It looks like it's been that way for a while. It's possible that the axle had come loose, and just now worked its way out far enough that the splines don't engage the gear any more. As far as it has moved out, I'm not sure the seal is even touching the surface of the axle.
(Subliminal message... maybe the shop didn't break anything. It may have just chosen that moment to come completely out. Stranger things have happened.)

I would still pull it out and make sure nothing is broken. If the snap ring is still in place at the end, wipe off the axle, wipe any crud out of the axle seal, and go ahead and bang it back in.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-08-2018).]

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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-08-2018 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let me just say, I cannot thank you enough for all your help! I was pretty afraid I'd have a $1500 repair bill on my hands.
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Patrick
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Report this Post03-08-2018 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

It looks like it's been that way for a while. It's possible that the axle had come loose, and just now worked its way out far enough that the splines don't engage the gear any more.

(Subliminal message... maybe the shop didn't break anything. It may have just chosen that moment to come completely out. Stranger things have happened.)


Maybe it separated just a tad more when the shop had the car on a lift (with the wheels hanging down) to do the exhaust work?
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cvxjet
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Report this Post03-08-2018 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:

Let me just say, I cannot thank you enough for all your help! I was pretty afraid I'd have a $1500 repair bill on my hands.


I am quite willing to come to Wisconsin and tap that back in for you....AND charge you $1500!

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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-08-2018 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's cold here though!
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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-09-2018 12:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I replace the output shaft seal, do I need to put any kind of sealer, silicone or grease on it?

While I'm at it I'm going to change the trans fluid to synchromesh.
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USMUCL
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Report this Post03-09-2018 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for USMUCLSend a Private Message to USMUCLEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:

When I replace the output shaft seal, do I need to put any kind of sealer, silicone or grease on it?

While I'm at it I'm going to change the trans fluid to synchromesh.


You really ought to consider trying to snap it back in place first and see if that is the problem that has the car sidelined.

That way, before you dump time and money into this, you have all the data.

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Raydar
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Report this Post03-09-2018 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:
When I replace the output shaft seal, do I need to put any kind of sealer, silicone or grease on it?


It depends upon whether the hole where the seal presses in is scratched. If it's smooth, I would be inclined to not add any kind of sealer. Or maybe just a paper thin coating.
Some aftermarket seals have a coating that acts as a sort of sealer, anyway.
(They're usually enough of a pain-in-the-azz to drive in, without having to deal with silicone. )

So what's the story? Axle okay? Broken?
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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-09-2018 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll know tomorrow or Sunday, depending on what my social director has planned
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post03-10-2018 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Short versions of my horror stories before I settled on ONE shop. First one just had to do the recalls on e\brake and exhaust bolts...for free. I picked up the car the next day. Ran home like crap, overheated, no cabin heat. I had them pick it back up with their tow truck. They broke 2 spark plug wires, pinched a water hose shut, burned out the clutch. They said it came in that way and I told them it ran perfect I just drove it back from an out of state trip. I went back and examined it in the daylite and the rear wheel wells and quarter panel bottoms were black with melted rubber. They were drag racing it around the lot. I just told them to get away from it and towed it to what is now my go to shop. That was the Ferrari kit. My V8 car was getting the auto trans rebuilt at another one and they snapped brand new back axle 'backing it out of the stall '.... You know they were punching it on the lot.
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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-11-2018 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Quick update, see that spot on the axle where the diameter steps down? I can now SEE that sticking out of the transmission. Also, there is not 1 drop of trans fluid in it!

I don't want to spend a lot on trans fluid during testing, whats a cheap trans fluid I can put in it for now? I should get it done tonight and I'll report back my results.
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Gall757
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Report this Post03-11-2018 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
5W motor oil would do no harm.

edit: I had to replace the output bearings on my Getrag a few years ago. It's likely yours are bad too.....it's not an easy fix, and the bearings are scarce.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-11-2018).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post03-11-2018 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:

I don't want to spend a lot on trans fluid during testing, whats a cheap trans fluid I can put in it for now?


Pontiac originally stated that 5W30 engine oil was to be used in the 5-spd Getrag. That recommendation has since been changed, but for testing purposes it's perfectly safe. Get two quarts/litres. Can't get much cheaper than that.
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Raydar
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Report this Post03-11-2018 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:
...
I had to replace the output bearings on my Getrag a few years ago. It's likely yours are bad too.....it's not an easy fix, and the bearings are scarce.



It is, however, easy to check.
Once both axles are plugged in correctly, shake one of the tulips up and down. You will see and feel a little bit of play on the side you are shaking.
What you should not see... is any up and down movement transferred through the trans, to the other tulip. If you do, it means the differential gears are moving around in the trans housing. Not a good thing.
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Raydar
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Report this Post03-14-2018 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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GODFATHER
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Report this Post03-15-2018 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And the results are?????
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Report this Post03-15-2018 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-16-2018 12:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Haven't gotten out to the garage yet. Supposed to be nice out this weekend so hopefully I'll have some good news.
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Report this Post03-17-2018 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's alive!!!!!! Gotta go drive my car now

Thank you so much!
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Gall757
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Report this Post03-17-2018 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Perhaps Dragonfish will return for dinner so we can find out what the cure was.....
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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-17-2018 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL sorry, took my daughter out to the park and for a long cruise Raydar called it! The axle was not broken, once I got it tapped (pounded) back into place and filled it back up with fluid it drives fantastic again.
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Raydar
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Report this Post03-17-2018 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! Cool. Happy to hear that.

There is the largest possibility that it's been working its way out, for a while, and (as someone else posted) just popped out, if the wheels were allowed to hang while it was on the lift.

Regardless... I'm happy you're back in action.
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Report this Post03-17-2018 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How can this happen? Isn't the axle held in by the control arm and hub? Seems to me they would need to move outward a good bit to pull loose from the trans. Does this indicate control arm bushings may be shot?
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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-17-2018 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the mechanic ran the engine and engaged the transmission with the wheels hanging at full suspension droop, I could see the tripot popping out if the retaining clip was absent.
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tshark
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Report this Post03-17-2018 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wouldn't that damage the CV joint, too?
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Report this Post03-17-2018 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Would it only happen if the retainer clip was missing? Like Tshark, I've frequently read that the driver's side tripot would or could be damaged due to the sharp angle. But maybe that's if the clip retains the axle in the transmission?
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Report this Post03-17-2018 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the axle comes out of the transmission, the angles would be more severe (acute). If the axle turns...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 03-17-2018).]

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Report this Post03-17-2018 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The passenger side is longer, the angle is not as acute....
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Report this Post03-18-2018 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:

once I got it tapped (pounded) back into place and filled it back up with fluid it drives fantastic again.


So you don't know if the retainer ring is missing or not. My guess is that it is missing, so be careful when you next lift your car by the frame.
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Dragonfish
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Report this Post03-19-2018 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DragonfishClick Here to Email DragonfishSend a Private Message to DragonfishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Two points that might be relevant.

1. They used a tire lift, they told me they wouldn't use a frame lift due to rust.
2. Almost certain the snap ring is good. Felt it pop in the last 1/4" and now that it's in, it won't come back out easily. I made a point to test that.
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Gall757
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Report this Post03-19-2018 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's a lot of rust. Maybe the mechanic was not so dumb to refuse to work on your car. There could be some flexing of the frame going on....

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-19-2018).]

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GODFATHER
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Report this Post03-20-2018 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GODFATHERClick Here to Email GODFATHERSend a Private Message to GODFATHEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe you should change the name of the topic now. I've been a auto repair shop owner and in the repair business for 37 years and yes there are shops out there that are not honest but for the ones that are honest and people start assuming things that are not true just makes it worse. Just my 2 cents.
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