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Gen II head light motor, tightening too much when closing? by JohnWPB
Started on: 12-29-2017 06:00 PM
Replies: 18 (297 views)
Last post by: carguy8t8 on 01-06-2018 08:42 PM
JohnWPB
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Report this Post12-29-2017 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My left headlight, when it goes down, tightens to the point that it will not open again when I turn the lights on. If, after I turn the lights off, I turn the knob till it JUST loosens, when I turn the lights on, it pops up with no problem.

Is this something that requires a rebuild, or is there some sort of adjustment that can be done?
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Blacktree
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Report this Post12-29-2017 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine does the same thing. It's pretty annoying to have to "un-stick" the motor all the time. I disassembled the motor assemblies, and cleaned and regreased everything. It made no difference.

I really despise pop-up headlights.
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fierofool
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Report this Post12-29-2017 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the motor was disassembled, was the tiny ball bearing on the bottom of the screw shaft lost? That rides on top of an adjustment screw in the bottom of the case. The B-B is captured in the cupped ends of the screw and shaft.

I didn't know about that B-B when I rebuilt my first Gen 2 motor. I saw it laying on my work cloth and fortunately I didn't throw it away. The motor operated going down, but required a twist of the knob or a light bump on the top of the knob to get it to come up. Doing some research on the problem revealed where the bearing went and when I reinstalled it, the motor worked correctly. I don't know which was the most annoying; raising the hood to bump the motor or fighting the brushes when reassembling the motor.
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theogre
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Report this Post12-30-2017 04:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
See my Cave, Gen 2 HL Motor

Cleaning lube and adjustment of the bearing may help but likely have more problems and will die soon. If have work done before like Derlin pins more so.

Cardone makes rebuild and new motors w/ a warranty. I thing AZ used them under the store brand.
New Cardone motors open/close HL in ~ 2/3 of a second. How? Not by a stopwatch... Too fast for most people... Instead I repeatedly counted ~20 frames of 30 fps video for open/close at different times from my dash cam this week using MPC-HC but any w/ frame stepping can count frames. (Engine running and cleaned/fixed many grounds including G101 and G102 a few years ago.)

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post12-30-2017 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Same canoe here. One headlight tightens too much and will often not open on command. Ah, the Fiero.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post12-30-2017 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought that Gen 2 headlights were a definitive remedy for the Gen 1 headlight woes.

Maybe it's the control module that's not shutting off the power fast enough once the current rises... so this is perhaps an aging problem of the non-serviceable black boxes.
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post12-30-2017 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I purchased the GEN II setup for my 86 from a forum member. I paid extra for him to rebuild them. I guess that didnt actually happen. The headlights have been opened / closed less than 50 times since purchasing them.

Thanks for all the info. I am gonna look for some new replacement motors.

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theogre
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Report this Post12-30-2017 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:
I thought that Gen 2 headlights were a definitive remedy for the Gen 1 headlight woes.

Maybe it's the control module that's not shutting off the power fast enough once the current rises... so this is perhaps an aging problem of the non-serviceable black boxes.
No. Module is most likely doing its job and shutting off the motor for binding/jamming.
Yes Module can die but much more rare of a problem then bad motors.

"Rebuilding" Gen2 motor looks simple but is not.
Just the BB mention above worn to be too loose, dirt etc making it bind, DIY adjusting too loose or too tight can trip module to shut down power to that motor.
Installing New Delrin pins/dowels from any vendor then the gear or output shaft can die the next time motor have problems. You have Metal gear too? Expect Output shaft death. see //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/128600.html

Fixing or "rebuild" Gen1 and Gen2 motors by DIY and many others claim can fix/rebuild cheap... can work for years or die next day. If you drive at night or in bad weather a lot then expect more problems and sooner.

Buying motors parts and messing around for hours or worse days isn't fun. Time cost money or if you don't think so, time from other things you like to do instead of fixing HL motors.
Gen1 fixing/"rebuilding" just motors is bad enough. Then likely need Relay(s) too. Or replace relay(s) only to find have motor problems.
Gen2 is Cheap in the long run to get New Cardone and switch in minutes and done. New ones you don't even have to deal w/ Cores Return bs. CR is bad enough locally but often a nightmare dealing web vendors.

This is why I would still upgrade to Gen2 and use Cardone motors at first sign of motor dying.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 12-31-2017).]

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JohnWPB
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Report this Post12-31-2017 10:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have heard from a few people that rebuilding these is a real beach! Even then, you are just replacing the gears or "bb" and still have a 30 year old motor.

I found both the DRIVERS SIDE and the PASSENGER SIDE motor at AutoZone.



NOT my favorite place to go, as the store close to me is full of clueless people. Not the cheapest route, at $126.00 but the lifetime warranty is nice. If they ever die again, just take it back and get a new one.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 12-31-2017).]

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fierofool
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Report this Post12-31-2017 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
John, check out PartsTrain.Com or PartsGeek.Com for prices. Parts Train has the Cardone and Replacement brands, but you may have to swap the wires on the motors to get them to move in the correct direction. AutoZone, PartsTrain, PartsGeek and Stockwise all list the same motors to fit both the Firebird and Fiero and we know the Firebird motors run opposite of the Fiero. John W. Tilford is having that issue at the moment with one going up while the other goes down.

Yesterday when I looked, Parts Train was about $100 per new motor. A couple of listings was even less.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 12-31-2017).]

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VanGTP5000
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Report this Post12-31-2017 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VanGTP5000Click Here to Email VanGTP5000Send a Private Message to VanGTP5000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This must be a South Florida problem...as I have been working with Charlie for weeks on my headlight motor problems

-Van
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fierofool
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Report this Post12-31-2017 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not exclusively. I've also been working with one in Nevada, too.
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VanGTP5000
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Report this Post12-31-2017 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VanGTP5000Click Here to Email VanGTP5000Send a Private Message to VanGTP5000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well you are the headlight motor Sensei Charlie!

-Van
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Report this Post12-31-2017 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
NOT my favorite place to go, as the store close to me is full of clueless people. Not the cheapest route, at $126.00 but the lifetime warranty is nice. If they ever die again, just take it back and get a new one.
Most other chain stores have same people working there.
But AZ warranties needs only the phone # when bought the item unlike PB and others will ignore you when can't find a receipt. Worse many use thermal print receipts that fade over time or water base inks that's easy to smudged etc.
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Report this Post12-31-2017 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I always make 2 copies of all my warrantied item receipts, staple the original to them and put them in a file for the particular vehicle.
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post12-31-2017 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am HORRIBLE about misplacing receipts! I buy something, and by the time I get home I have lost the receipt!

With ANY important receipt for warranties, case it doesn't fit / work ect... I open Evernote and snap a photo of it right after the purchase. Evernote reads the receipt with OCR so you can easily search for a receipt. Type "zone" and all the Autozone receipts will show up

The info is stored on your phone AND in the cloud. I have receipts and stuff from 10 years ago, and have switched phones like 8 times in that time. You can also save them to google drive if you do not want to use a specific app.
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Report this Post12-31-2017 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RudyGTSend a Private Message to RudyGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
same problem here, driver side needs a little turn if it's been sitting for a while. but so far goes up and down after the initial help
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post01-06-2018 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
NOT A FIX!!!

I had to stress this. I did not fix my headlights, but they work now.

After my passenger side goes down, it would often become stuck. After it closed completely, and would not rise to the occasion, I turned the knob clockwise with a bit of force. Kind of leaned on it a bit, but did not want to snap anything. Well, it now works. Has been working for the past week. I just don't know?
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carguy8t8
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Report this Post01-06-2018 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carguy8t8Click Here to Email carguy8t8Send a Private Message to carguy8t8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is it just me or is it always the right side that gets stuck. I have two 88's and it's always the right side.

Oops never mind. First post says left side.

One thing I have discovered when rebuilding these (especially C4 motors) is that if there is not enough spacers on the side cover side of the shaft the gear can actually rub on the side cover. Especially with a aluminum or brass gear upgrade.

[This message has been edited by carguy8t8 (edited 01-06-2018).]

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