I THINK I got the pickupcoil wires in the right order, but not 100% sure.. what happens if they are in the wrong way ?

And purchasing a new distributor have crossed my mind, so I get everything new and fresh.

By te way, i noticed one to the teeths on the "star wheel" was bent too, I suspect it should not be that way, not sure if it matters much but I can bend it back if it should be straight.

So that connector onn the filter pic is the connector to the filter ? .. That was one of the connectors I cleaned a long time ago without knowing what it was because it had a lot of oxide in it.. but I can disconnect it and just lose the tach ?

What is that thing that looks like a hole on the intake snorkle, by the spark plug wire?

tshark: You mean this one ?



I have NO idea, it sure look like a hole ? but might be dirt or soemthing ? ..I better go and look tomorrow, I sure didnt see anything when I was there..

Yes. Whatever that is.

quote Originally posted by tshark: What is that thing that looks like a hole on the intake snorkle, by the spark plug wire?

Is there a 2.8 upper intake manifold that doesn't have that?

Every couple of months, somebody asks about it here. It has something to do with one of the holes used for the TB mounting bolts. What you see there does not go through into the intake manifold.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-09-2018).]

Correct, I checked it this morning and it is a pit, not a hole, must be from the casting.

Funny I didn't notice it before, anyway its not a problem


About the EGR, is it used for anything except emission control ? (it sometimes is, but usally not) , the reason that I ask is.. can I just plug the pipes ? ..since the car is so old there is no problem doing so legally.

Wow...so many questions.
Okay first, if your radiator fan does not come on even with the dashboard AC selector turned on, then your fan motor or the wiring to it has probably failed.
Next, your idle RPM's are very close to typical, and I wonder if your tach is reading completely accurately. Mine reads an unwavering 1050 at idle and I seem to have no vacuum leaks (famous last words..).
The new Cardone replacement distributors: The members here have reported they sometimes come with little to no electronic heat transfer grease/paste under their ignition module and consequently those ICM's do not always last for long . You can add more grease of course, but it's said that removing the ignition module will void the warranty (not a problem if you don't wish a replacement).
Others here talked of the pick-up coil wires having polarity, so I just passed that on..sorry if that isn't true.
If you wish, you can temporarily run a hose from your vulktaped manifold tap directly to your black plastic vapor (EVAC) recovery tank (between the driver's side strut mount and air filter). It's the smallest tube.
Also, if you are spraying for leaks, there are four nylon vacuum tubes that are a bit hidden. Two are directly under the throttle body and one is behind them at the back (the cold start injector air line), and one near the EGR tube's plenum connection.

Yes, the tach filter and connector are both shown in the pic I posted.

And finally, the EGR tube: some say if it's blocked off the engine runs a little rich and some say lean. I vote for rich. But still, if your EGR valve and solenoid work properly and the tube isn't cracked, I would keep it operational. My opinion only.

I sucpect that the rad fan have the same problem as everything else, oxide in connectors.. just have to find where..

Hmm ok, if the idle is typical I might leave it as it is, I will fix the little vaccum leak i found (the vulktape thingie) anyway ofcourse.

About the polarity, No! you where right, it was when i swapped the leads it started to work, probably my cleaning fixed the problem, then I introduced a new problem when I accidenticaly swapped the cables. As you or someone wrote they are color marked, but there was not much color left on them after I cleaned the connectors pretty rough (anti oxide spray and mechanical cleaning)

But since the pickupcoils are so cheap and mine look so bad I will buy a new one anyway.

Do you mean connecting a "big" hose instead of those adapters and the thin hard pipes between the intake and the evac ? ..I will look for the other vacc tubes too.

About EGR it doesnt seem to be a good idea just to plug it, readed up in other threads that you should have a program with EGR disabled then ?


Now my MAIN problem is why its so hard to start, when I got the car it started directly, I mean, I hardly even heard the starter it just started, my dad say its always been that easy to start.

But not now, now I have to use the starter 3 or 4 times (about 10s periods) before it start.. it smell gasoline when i crank it so I suspect its something with the ignition, but who knows..

I can think of several reasons, some kind of coldstart system (injector or similar) that doesnt work, a vacc leak, some tempsensor acting up or ignition.. what are most likely ?

Is it flooded when it does start? Have you checked the FPR for leaks?

Well, it sure smell gasoline before it start, so I guess it is.

What is FPR ?

FPR= Fuel Pressure Regulator

You are probably correct that your starting problem is ignition related based on what you have written. As I have said before, storing a car for 10 years can cause plastic parts (and electrical components) to fail when you begin using them again.
If your Tachometer reads 400 rpm or more while cranking, then that means your ICM is trying to work, although I'm not sure why the reading is going quite a lot higher at times (or does it work okay now?).
As bad as your distributor looked inside, it's smart that you will be replacing the pick-up coil. Also, I suggest you might want to do some testing. If you have an inductive timing light (which has a sensor that clips over the spark plug wire insulation), you could hook that on the any spark plug wire (ignition coil wire is best) and watch for spark as a helper starts the engine. That will tell you if your ignition system is producing some spark when starting. Then, check every spark plug wire's resistance with a ohm meter (VOM); resistance should be between 3000 to 15000 ohms. Also, check your distributor rotor and cap; all the metal conductors should read close to zero ohms and look for any crack in the distributor cap's plastic. Or, you could simply replace all of these components with new parts.
Your other five spark plugs may be okay, but you should check them anyway. This GM engine has a small hole/recesses around the plugs that can hold water and so some plugs can rust and seize. If you can't remove them, try loosening them with a good oil like PB Blaster and let it soak in for hours or even days.
Your coil may be okay as well, although I had to replace mine (again, at 70 k miles).
I bet your Father will be smiling when you are driving this car regularly again :smile)

Ouch, been a hard time lately, the kids been sick, girlfriend been sick, I been sick, the temperature is nearly tropical (about 36C in the shadow) and on top of everything one of the rear brakelines on my SAAB 9-5 Aero broke (common problem in sweden due to the winters), so priority one was to replace both the rear brakelines on that, and then trying to get rid of all the sickness in the family.... anyway..

After cleaning the ignition module, the connectors and especially the pickupcoils connections, AND swapping the wires on it the car starts, but its very hard to start, as I said I usally need to run the starter three or four times for 10s each, then it start to ignite and sometimes it start, otherwise I try again and it usally start but cough a bit but soon go up to around 2000rpm, and after a while down to 1200rpm (all due to the instrument in the car)

Now it doesn't misfire as it dit before, and the car is driveable, I justg dont trust it because its so hard to start.

However, today I bridged A/B in the ALDL connector and readed error codes, and I have a code 42, "electronic spark timing".

That seem to usally be bad ignition module, bad ignition module ground, bad connections or bad sparkplug wires.

But im not sure how old the code is, it can be for before I cleaned every connector.. How do I remove the codes so I can see if it set it again ? remove some fuse for a while ? ECM fuse ?

..I also created a groundcable for the other end of the engine (gearbox end), I dont think it would make a difference here and now, but good ground is always good to have.


Timing light, yes I should have one of those, I just have to find it, havent used it for many years now, but I will try to see if I have spark while cranking or not. (before it actually start ofcourse)

I have checked and cleaned the rotor and the cap, and I will order new parts when i order from rockauto.. mainly because they are cheap and I know from other cars that those can create troubles if they are old, especially in rain..(on my old Honda CRX I had a lot of problems with that..)

Im also going to buy new sparkplugs ofcourse, and maybe wires too, they are pretty cheap.

But it really bothers me that it was so easy to start before.. something have clearly happened..


..I also removed the cooling fan relays and cleaned their connectors (those where full of some black goo..) but no difference, the fan still dont start. Tried to remove the connector from the sensor on the engine but didnt understand how to remove it, going to try again.

[This message has been edited by Repulsiv (edited 07-19-2018).]

You can remove the ECM error codes by disconnecting a battery wire for 30s to a few minutes.

A spark timing issue could easily be a distributor pick-up coil problem, as that is where the ignition timing signal begins.. New spark plug wires are a good idea and inexpensive, and while your ignition control module may be okay if it is the factory Delco unit, having a new replacement in the car is something many of the guys here have recommended.
My car seems to thrive having the ignition system perfect. Otherwise... really not so much.

I suggest buying and installing: distributor pick-up coil, spark plug wires, Delco ICM+ spark plugs+ tan color distributor base seal (Delco # 10477565), and maybe new ICM screws.

The fan relay grounding switch (on the engine) connector needs to be squeezed to remove. I've never done it so maybe someone here can describe it better?

quote Originally posted by Rexgirl: The fan relay grounding switch (on the engine) connector needs to be squeezed to remove. I've never done it so maybe someone here can describe it better?

You're correct. The plug is oblong shaped. Use appropriate pliers to gently squeeze (no need to crush!) the wide part of the plug together and it will easily pull off.

Today I finally found my timinglight, yay!

I also talked my girlfriend into helping me turn the key while I operated the timinglight.

If I connect it to the cable from the ignition coil to the distributor I get flashes all the time (good), if I connect it to the lead to sparkplug 1/3/5 I get flashes.. well, now and then. And I can actually hear that the times when it nearly start is the times I get flashes.

So I removed the distributor cap again and cleaned the connectors even better with a fine sandpaper, both inside and outside, I also cleaned the rotor and also used pliers to tighten up the shoes on the leads to the sparkplugs.

I also removed sparkplug 1/3/5 (the easy ones) and looked at them, they where all black (rich fuel I guess, but it doesnt say so much since I havent been driving the car normally), I cleaned them and checked the gap, on 1/3 it was around 1.1mm (that should be fairly correct if I translated from inch correctly) on 5 it was larger so I adjusted it.

But still no difference, maybe it started a BIT faster.

When its not starting i get the same thing with the timinglight as before.

Its very strange, I never seen a rotor/cap fail in that way before, so im not really sure it its the problem, but I want to swap them.

Im not sure if its much use to continue to fix this without having a fresh rotor/cap/cables/plugs, since I'm going to replace them anyway.


..And by the way, the "starter does not work" problem got back again today, after 5-6 trys it just clicked.. I waited a while and trhen it worked again.

[This message has been edited by Repulsiv (edited 07-25-2018).]

Your starter pulls a massive amount of current and any oxide on it's electrical connections will cause a failure. You could clean the battery wire's connection at the starter solenoid and make sure the starter's mounting bolts are tight (for grounding). If that doesn't work, the heavy contacts in the solenoid may be corroded or the starter brushes worn down.

Spark plugs and wires are a good idea, and maybe it would be easiest to buy a new "CARDONE SELECT" distributor, Rockauto part # 841633. You may want to add electronic paste under the ignition module before using it, of course. Keep your original GM distributor as a spare.

Hope you will stay far away from the wildfires.

I fixed both the battery connections and grounding, and its so strange that it works perfectly most of the times, and then one time just.. NO..

I placed an order on rockauto today, on a LOT of things.. gaskets for the calipers, all brakepads, oil/air/fuel filters, PCV, thermostat, dist cap, rotor, ignition cables, sparkplugs, pickupcoil ignition module.. bulbs, lampholders, generator belt.. and more..

I really hope that I elliminated most problems after that

Your starting problem may be in the ignition switch. It is adjustable and if it has moved out of proper position, the 'start' contacts might not always be making contact in an older switch. Or, on manual transmission cars, there is a switch on the clutch pedal that is also part of the start circuit. Finally, there is a linkage in tilt steering columns that can bend.

Hmm, interesting about the switch on the steering collumn, I will look at that!

anyway..

Friday i recived my things from rockauto.. I thought.. in reality I got 2 out of 3 boxes.. fedex simply dont know why the last one is "on a truck somwhere" gah..

Unfortunatly most of the ignition parts where in that last box, but I swapped the ignition cables (the only ignition-part in the boxes I recived), didnt help at all - just like expected.

A bad thing also was that the cables I had in the car they where different lenghts, the belden-cables I ordered had just two lenghts so it didnt look that nice.

I also swapped the airfilter and thermostat, and some bulbs and other small stuff.

Since my fam is away a week I could also take a few testdrives (usally the fiero is located behind another car) and noticed something, the misfires only occures while reving
or accelerating (same thing basically..), if I driving in one specific speed and maintain that there is no misfires at all.

That lead me to thinking if there is a problem with the ignition timing-advance ? ..how is it done on those engines ? is it mechanical in the distributor, or fully electronic ?

..Anyway, fedex say I MIGHT get the missing box on monday, then I get new stuff to try with..


..I also tryed to remove the cable on the temp sensor again.. how the h**l.. its so tight, I cannot neither fingers or pliers down there ??


when I swapped the airfilter I also found that one of the vaccumhoses on the cruise control was broken, so I cutted a part of it so it shouldent leak anymore, but no difference.

I beloeve the timing is manual with the distributor.

You could check the MAP sensor and the TPS, but vacuum leaks are often the issue. Vacuum leaks from the cruise cannister, around the EGR, etc. You could have a blockage going to the MAP sensor.

Oh. Which temp sensor? By the thermostat housing, or by the distributor? I'm guessing by the thermostat housing.

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 08-05-2018).]

The ECU advances the ignition timing.

Hmm.. today the box arrived finally.

I started with swapping rotor and distributor cap, HOWEVER, the new one had screws with inch threads, and the old one had millimeter.. so ofcourse I broke one screw..

To remove it I had to remove the distributor so I did.. and when it was loose anyway I disassembled it and swapped both the pickupcoil and the ignition module, removed the broken screw and
used the old screws, replaced rotor/cap and removed ignition lead to be SURE I had oil pressure, I GUESS the axel down on the distributor actually drive the oilpump as it does on many other engines..

Anyway I had oilpressure so back with the ignition cable and tried to start, first it didnt start and when I double checked the firing order I noticed I swapped two cables by mistake, oops, put those back in the correct way and now it started.

I took a testdrive and.. NO.. misfire exactly as before.

Now the only thing I didnt swap was the sparkplugs, and I have new one so I will.. I really hope it wasnt the sparkplugs all the time, then i put a lot of energy, time and money in the wrong places..

..On the other hand, the pickupcoil REALLY needed to be changed anyway, it went in pieces when I removed it, the copper was green and the plastics where like cooked pasta.. its hard to belive it actually worked, and since the ignition module is a known problem area it can be nice to have a extra spare.

Well, if its not the sparkplugs, any other ideas ?

[This message has been edited by Repulsiv (edited 08-07-2018).]

If changing the sparkplugs does not quicken the starting time, check your fuel pressure, both while running and during the 10-20 minutes after you shut the engine off. There is a valve the tester can connect to just below the large vacuum tap (10mm?) on the right side of the intake manifold (to the right of the "O" in the 'Fiero' casting). The black rectangular plastic MAP sensor is immediately rearward of that tap, btw.

Your intermittent starter motor problem is very likely in the starter itself. but I suggested the ignition switch as there is a small possibility of a current drop there or at the clutch pedal interrupt switch.

Yesterday I was going to replace the fuel filter, just because a clogged filter can make the engine hard to start, and make it go bad under acceleration, and also I bought a couple of fuel filters, it probably need a change anyway.

However, the first point was to remove the fuse for the fuel pump, and I noticed that the fuse was heavuily corroded, so I cleaned that one, and looked at the other fuses, they where all corroded, so instead of changing the fuel filter I ended up cleaning the fusebox..

After I done that I tried to start the engine just to see if that was the problem, and it started instantly! ..let it idle a while, stopped and tried to start again, no.. now I had to crank it for like 10s before it started, I stopped again and the same again.. 8-15s or so every time.

But, now this that I noted earlier (when it was a lot more troubles):

quote Originally posted by Repulsiv: I also nothed something else, sometimes when I try to start the rpm-gauge does not move at all, and it it suddenly ignites I can see that it jump up. Does the meter and the ignintion control take the rpm signal from the same place ? ..then I could be onto something here..

Now its extremtly clear that this is related to the starting problem, because when the engine does not start the rpm needle is at zero, as soon as it jumps up (while cranking) the engine start to ignite and start.

So it seem like the engine do not get any signal and therefore doesnt ignite, as soon as it work it starts, this seem to be the root of the start-problems, not sure if its the same problem causing it to misfire under load.

I wish I had a logical or electrical schematic of just the ignition system, i have a feeling I have oxide somewhere.. maybe between the ECM and the distributor ?

ICM?

Corrosion in the pins and sockets at the distributor.
Disassemble and carefully clean the pickup coil contacts and the external ICM contacts.

I have a brand new ICM and a brand new pickup coil, could be the connector but I have tried to clean it.

Anyway.. today its been a Fiero day again.

First I cleaned connectors (again), now also the MAP sensor and a few others I found, I also removed the ECM and cleaned the connectors there, but those had no oxide at all.

Then I changed the fuel filter, pretty messy even if I removed the fuel pump fuse first and started the car to drain so much fuel I could..

Anyway, new fuel filter in its place, but still same problem.

Now I decided to check the ignition, I removed the distributor before so its always good, I shorted A-B and used a timing light, it was not 10 degrees, more 13, so I set it as close as I could to 10.

I also readed error codes, none stored (except 12 ofcourse).

Actually the car seem to start easier now, not directly but after a few seconds usally.

Now the main problem is that it misfire heavily when I push the pedal.. if I push it slooowly it works fine, no misfires at all.. same if I keep it still.. but if I floor it the engine nearly stop, it misfires, bangs and goes reeally bad.. until it reached the right rpm, then it goes fine again..

I really dont know what it can be.. TPS ? doesnt sound like that ? MAP-sensor ? maybe.. but its strange behaviour if its failed ? it should also set error code ?

I also spent a lot of time at looking for bad vaccum hoses/lines.. didnt find any.

I also tested the EGR, not that I thought it would create this problem, but just to know its ok, it was.


As I said before it feels like its a problem with ignition advance, but I cannot see how it would happen.


Any ideas ?

I wonder if the balancer is off, but yes, seems like timing, or the plugs.

Are all the pins on the ICM connector OK? None are pushed in or anything? Someone broke down at least 3 times, as a result of this.

Could be a weak spark?

Here is a 1987 engine wiring diagram found on this Forum-

After not being able to fix everything last summer I just let the car stand there all the winter, but now spreing is coming and I want to get it running again.

I have spent some time talking to people, and googling, and right now I suspect that the misfires is not caused by the ignition, but the
fuel, I suspect that for several reasons but mainly that I changed most of the ignition system, and that I have found a few threads with
people having similar problem that was caused by bad fuel delivery.

Some guy had a fiero that had been standing 6(?) years and worked fine first, but then after a while got the same problem as me, he swapped
a lot of things including everything about the ignition, but no success. Finally he took down the fuel tank and found a fuel strainer that was completly clogged up,
cleaned the tank, swapped both the strainer and the pump and then everything went fine.

Now I really suspect that this is my problem too, especially the strainer.

What do you guys think ? is it worth the troubles to take the tank down ?

If I do, I sure buy a new strainer first since its cheap, but should I swap the pump too ?

I really would like to measure the fuel pressure first, but I havent found any fuel pressure meter in sweden that is compatible with this "chevy MPI" fuel rail connector (that someone said it was)

Would this from rock auto work ?

https://www.rockauto.com/en...einfo.php?pk=3616809

Any other that is better and/or cheaper that I could buy instead ? where ?

A guy at work is going on a trip to USA and promise he could take one home for me if I just can find out what I need..


..Or does anyone have any other ideas ?

The car starts and I can drive it, I just cannot accelerate very good, it misfires heavily if I push the pedal too fast.

You can test for a blocked screen or bad fuel pump with a pressure gauge. Put one in the rail and run the car and watch the pressure. If the pump is bad or the screen is blocked you will see a drop in pressure when you open the throttle. Now if you decide to drop the tank for any reason change everything in it if you can afford to. It is a pain to drop the tank and put it back in. Might as well fix everything (do not forget the fuel gauge sending unit as well) that way you only have to drop it once.

A side note, if you have good fuel pressure the whole time it's time to look at your injectors, if you have not already.

The Rockauto link you have posted is for a cylinder compression tester, and will not work for fuel injection testing. It only has adapters for both common spark plug thread sizes.

My fuel injection rail Schrader Valve cap internal (female) measurement is 0.387 inches at the thread tops, so the actual size will be larger. If GM used the same valve threads in their fuel injected 4.3 litre engine (good chance) , then our (male) Schrader threads are -4 AN threads (7/16" - 20 SAE) by my online research.

It seems like female AN size adapters could be available in Europe. You can also search online for a " Fuel Injection Pump Injector Tester Pressure Gauge " that can read to 50 psi or higher, or your friend can ask to purchase a F. I. pressure tester set with Fiero/GM adapters at an American auto parts store.