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Custom Gauge Installs? Need suggestions...... by Capt Fiero
Started on: 07-29-2016 02:01 PM
Replies: 10 (379 views)
Last post by: theogre on 08-01-2016 11:11 AM
Capt Fiero
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Report this Post07-29-2016 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I am going through all my install idea's needs vs wants,

Need to add to car
Wide Band Display AEM UEGO
Boost + Manual Boost controller. AEM TruBoost

Want to add to car
Fuel Pressure
Oil Temperature


On the Fence
Exhaust Gas Temperature


Already installed.

Speed (stock gauge) + GPS when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM.
Tach (Stock + Autometer) (plus Digital when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM)
Water Temp Stock Dash Cluster (plus Digital when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM)
Voltage Stock Dash Cluster (plus Digital when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM)


I also know that you can install an 88 Oil Pressure sensor onto the fuel rail, then have a dip switch to run it up to the Factory Oil Pressure gauge, so you can flip the stock gauge back n forth between oil pressure and fuel pressure.
Which would be cool, however do I really want to trust the stock gauge for either of those duty's? New engine has a theoretical output of 900-1000hp, but realistically around 600hp, and 450hp for daily driving. (raise/lower boost level depending on fuel and conditions)

I have a triple gauge pod in the mail from China and I have a dual gauge pod sitting here. So I could trim it and have 5 up the A-Pillar, or just keep 2 on the A-Pillar or ..................................
I need some suggestions on what to mount where and how you liked it. Did you run manual feeds, IE plastic line with engine oil feeding into the cabin for oil pressure, or did you use a sensor.
If I was just doing drag racing it would be easy to put in simple gauges, but this car will first and foremost be a Street car subjected to long periods idling in traffic, Subjected to lots of stop light sprints, and lots of Wide Open Throttle runs in top gear on the highway. I want to know everything going on with the engine at all times.

I have a Stand Alone system with support for either a RacePack gauge set or and this is kinda cool addition for a Stand Alone, a Digital Dash using an android tablet or windows tablet over Bluetooth. Yes I know you can do it with obd2 using Torque or a million others, but obviously a stand alone does not have OBDII, LOL. The digital option won't be used everyday all day, so I want physical gauges that are ALWAYS there.

If you have pics of your setup, or even pics of someone elses setup, please post them.

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For Sale $4000, Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front,

[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 07-31-2016).]

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dobey
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Report this Post07-31-2016 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, you don't really need a gauge for wide band. If you're using aftermarket ECM, it should ideally be able to read the wideband sensor(s) directly, and you can just read it on the computer while tuning. Likewise for the EGT, and fuel pressure. You probably don't need it. Might be useful to log, and read while tuning, but not something you really need a gauge on the dash for.

For the water temp, volt meter, and oil pressure, is there any particular reason you can't use the stock gauges for those? I don't know if your car has the aux gauges, but surely a retrofit would be easy enough if not. If the reason for the water temp is the needle banging issue, and the "unreliable" issues with the stock engine, the needle smacking is easy enough to fix, and feeding it the right signal from your aftermarket ECM should make it reliable enough.

That would just leave boost and oil temp. There are plenty of options that would fit fine in a pillar pod, and look decent next to the stock gauges.
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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post07-31-2016 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't need a gauge for Wide Band? Uhm that's like saying you don't need an oil pressure gauge. Because an idiot light will light up when you have lost oil pressure, or an idiot light to let you know when you have overheated so bad that your engine is about to explode. I'd rather have a gauge to warn of an issue, so I don't have to wait for something to blow up, then load up the laptop to find out why I just burnt a hole in a piston. Ya the Aftermarket ECM reads both the AEM Wideband and the OEM standard O2 sensors. I never looked to see if it outputs various gauge signals or not. I know it is Race Pack gauge compatible. It also has a Bluetooth output for a digital gauge system for Android or Windows. I bought a cheap Android tablet for $200 bucks to mount into the dash for quick diagnostic information.

What aftermarket gauges do you have in your car and how are they installed? Come to think I don't think I even know what engine swap do you have? I just always assumed it was a highly modded 3800SC or LS V8.

I have revised my initial list of gauges and locations. I'll edit the first post at the top.


Need to add to car
Wide Band Display AEM UEGO
Boost + Manual Boost controller. AEM TruBoost

Want to add to car
Fuel Pressure
Oil Temperature


On the Fence
Exhaust Gas Temperature


Already installed.

Speed (stock gauge) + GPS when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM.
Tach (Stock + Autometer) (plus Digital when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM)
Water Temp Stock Dash Cluster (plus Digital when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM)
Voltage Stock Dash Cluster (plus Digital when tablet is connected to Standalone ECM)

------------------
857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT , 5spd Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with a Turbo.

For Sale $4000, Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front,

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Report this Post07-31-2016 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have used auto-meter in all my race cars.. and most of my street cars..
They have many styles and lines.. and electric or mechanical..
I have yet to have one fail
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Report this Post07-31-2016 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Capt Fiero:
Don't need a gauge for Wide Band? Uhm that's like saying you don't need an oil pressure gauge. Because an idiot light will light up when you have lost oil pressure, or an idiot light to let you know when you have overheated so bad that your engine is about to explode. I'd rather have a gauge to warn of an issue, so I don't have to wait for something to blow up, then load up the laptop to find out why I just burnt a hole in a piston. Ya the Aftermarket ECM reads both the AEM Wideband and the OEM standard O2 sensors. I never looked to see if it outputs various gauge signals or not. I know it is Race Pack gauge compatible. It also has a Bluetooth output for a digital gauge system for Android or Windows. I bought a cheap Android tablet for $200 bucks to mount into the dash for quick diagnostic information.

What aftermarket gauges do you have in your car and how are they installed? Come to think I don't think I even know what engine swap do you have? I just always assumed it was a highly modded 3800SC or LS V8.

I have revised my initial list of gauges and locations. I'll edit the first post at the top.


Huh? I guess you mean you want an AFR gauge that takes input from a wideband, and not a gauge for the wideband itself. You can have one if you want, but I wouldn't say it's an absolute necessity. You mentioned in your other thread that budget was a concern for your build. Really, the only even insanely expensive car maker that I know of putting fuel pressure and fuel ratio gauges on the display by default, is Koenigsegg, Most makers that provide such displays today only do so because they have moved to totally configurable LCD screen displays for the gauges. I don't know what all gauges your ECM will support, but your best option if you want more advanced gauges like AFR and such which the ECM drives, is to do some research on the ECM to see if there are some configurable gauges it can send data to. For example, a few gauge makers now have gauges which fit in gauge pods like you have for the A pillar, and which can display many OBD-II readings, that can be flipped through with a button on the face. If your ECM can send OBD-II data to such gauges, you can maybe get a couple of those.

My swap isn't done yet, but I'm building a highly modded V8 based on the LS4 block. I'm planning to retrofit a bunch of different stock GM parts for various electronics needs. For the gauges, I've got a panel from a Pontiac G8 with a custom gauge face I had made, to make it look more fitting in a Fiero. It has a nice LCD display in the center above the steering column, where the water/fuel gauges are in the Fiero, which I should be able to display anything I want on with a bit of programming. I'll probably also use the G8 auxiliary gauges too, but I've not decided if I want to use the digital display panel, or go with a triple pod setup for that, yet.
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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post07-31-2016 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I already have the AEM Wideband Sensor and Display so its just a matter of where to mount it.
I know the 90's era corvette's with the digital dash, had a combo Oil Pressure / Fuel Pressure gauge. Just flipped a switch to view one or the other. (Its where I got my idea from)


Cool on the LS4 mod, I have spoke to the guy with the LS4 Turbo Fiero on a few different sites. Really nice guy. Started a company building custom electronics and shift kits for cars. He setup a 4T65 with Tap Shift, Trans Brake, setup so he can stage the car with full throttle to spool the turbo, then tap a micro switch and launch like crazy. It explains how he is getting 10.20's with a fairly stock LS4 Turbo.

Between info from him and Matt aka The Sloppy Mechanic I think I have the engine mechanics sorted out, then Archie for the Fiero mechanical then EFI Source and EFI Analytical for the fuel injection.
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Report this Post07-31-2016 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Capt Fiero:
I already have the AEM Wideband Sensor and Display so its just a matter of where to mount it.
I know the 90's era corvette's with the digital dash, had a combo Oil Pressure / Fuel Pressure gauge. Just flipped a switch to view one or the other. (Its where I got my idea from)


Cool on the LS4 mod, I have spoke to the guy with the LS4 Turbo Fiero on a few different sites. Really nice guy. Started a company building custom electronics and shift kits for cars. He setup a 4T65 with Tap Shift, Trans Brake, setup so he can stage the car with full throttle to spool the turbo, then tap a micro switch and launch like crazy. It explains how he is getting 10.20's with a fairly stock LS4 Turbo.

Between info from him and Matt aka The Sloppy Mechanic I think I have the engine mechanics sorted out, then Archie for the Fiero mechanical then EFI Source and EFI Analytical for the fuel injection.


Oh. If you already have the AEM gauge, really there aren't that many options in a Fiero if you're keeping the stock gauges in, and don't want to go crazy with fabrication. I think an A pillar pod is really the only choice that won't require fabricating. The closer the gauges are to the dash, the easier they'll be to read at a glance. You might be able to use one of the pods which just screws onto the top/bottom of a dash, but I can't think of where a good spot to mount it would be, without blocking some view out the windshield. I also don't know if any of the pods to put gages above the steering column in front of the dash are available for the 80s GM columns. Depending on configuration, it might also block the view of some other gauges.

Another option would be to replace the stock aux gauges with a triple pod, and replace the tach in your car (I think I saw in your other thread that this is an 87 GT?) with one from a coupe/SE that has the oil pressure gauge built into the tach. Or you could do the Sunbird Turbo tach, but the boost gauge on it seems to be limited to +/- 15 PSI (also not sure if you want to see bar there instead). If you're planning to get 1000 HP though, with the boost turned up, I think you probably will need a higher reading gauge. Then you could have oil temp, volts, and AFR in the aux pod. I think I saw someone also made a triple gauge panel that could just be mounted into the stock aux gauge housing. It wouldn't be too hard to make a panel, either. Maybe boost and fuel pressure on the A pillar.

Thanks. Hopefully I can get the rest of my life back in order and make some progress on it again soon. Life has really gotten in the way of me enjoying it.
I think the guy with the LS4 running 10s is pretty well expected given the Cartuning.ca turbo kit for the LS4 makes ~640 HP at the flywheel on a stock engine. dratts has the same kit on the LS4 in his Murci clone, on here. With a car that hooks, and weighs ~2700 lbs, at that power level, 10s is pretty spot on.

I probably won't be turboing my car, and if I ever do, it will probably only be ~8 PSI max (11:1 compression). I'm more trying to build it with an 8000 RPM redline, and as a super sleeper. Good luck with your build. Hopefully any info and suggestions I provide will help you make the best decisions for your build. I'll definitely be watching it.
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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post07-31-2016 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I picked up an Autometer A-Pillar with 2 pods in it, and I ordered a 3 pillar pod from china for cheap just to experiment with. I know I am going to do at least 2 gauges on the pillar. If I did remove the aux pod I would only gain one spot as I would have to replace the volts/oil pressure. What I may end up doing for now, is having the Manual Boost controller / boost gauge and the AEM Wideband on the pillar, then add the Fuel Pressure to the OEM oil pressure gauge. After that I would only need to add the oil temperature someplace. I'm not sure who has the Oil / Tach but that's not me. I did have a Sunbird tach, 18 years ago, but sold it on E-Bay. LOL, Yes I am in Canada but only the Import Junkies run in BAR, I prefer PSI same as most Domestic guys. I talk a lot about the 1000hp capable, but I am not sure if I will ever push it that far. I am installing parts that will allow it and support it. (Just got done installing an entire new self contained fuel pump wiring, (New Relay, new wiring to the pump, new connectors going through the pump, new internal tank wiring, and a huge 400lph pump, The system connectors directly to the battery then uses the factory pump signal to turn on the new system. Its needed to run the 8x 80lb injectors, that can have the pressure cranked to flow the same as 100lb injectors. I grabbed a set of the PAC1218 valve springs, which will let the motor rev to 7000rpm clean. Now after all that, I still don't think I'll be cranking to "11" expect maybe once one the dyno, just so I have a piece of paper that says it does or at least comes close to it. The car will be neck snapping stupid fast at 600hp.

As to your car, 8000rpm which up until a month ago, seemed completely impossible for a regular semi stock V8, now seems completely attainable. Good bearings a long duration cam with decent lift. (unless you port the heads you will need more duration than lift) Mine with the turbo will still be giving 80-90% of peak power at 7000rpms. Its going to make it a ball to drive.

You have given me lots of good info, and its always nice to have someone to bounce idea's off of.

Ya know I still have yet to start an official build thread. I guess I should get around to doing one. Just have to take the time to go through the pics from the beginning to where I am at now.

Thank You.
"The Capt"

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857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT , 5spd Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with a Turbo.

For Sale $4000, Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front,

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Report this Post07-31-2016 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah, I see. I just looked up the Tru Boost. Didn't realize that existed until now. For that one, I'd try to place it in a place that's easy to reach. Since it's a gauge, then the Sunbrid tach doesn't make any sense to have for you. The oil/rpm tach from the coupe Fieros would be a better option.

The combo tach/oil pressure gauge was in the 84/85 cars. I'm not 100% sure if the later SE and coupe cars had it or not. Since you're using the aftermarket ECM it should be easy enough to get it reading right. You can probably find one for pretty cheap, and swap it into your cluster. That would give you two more spots in the aux housing if you replace the stock aux gauges with round ones in a triple pod.

Yeah, I really want to go to 9000 RPM, but I think the stock ECM will only support up to about 8200. I'm definitely porting the heads, as well as intake and throttle body. I'm also retrofitting VVT, to get as wide and flat a torque curve as I can. Not going too big on duration. I picked a cam that has a nice smooth idle, and should help keep the Fiero sounding like a Fiero, but should be able to do well with the build, especially with the VVT. Should be good to go though. I know fieroguru runs his LS4 to 7000, and he's got unported heads/intake/tb, and a fair bit less lift, but a bit more duration. Hopefully one day I'll actualy be able to run it.

Haha. Well, I think it'll be a ball to drive, even without your turbo. You're talking about a 6.0L V8 that makes about 300 lbs-ft of torque in stock form. In a 2700-2900 lbs car, it's going to haul ass no matter what you do with the turbo, until you blow it up.
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Report this Post08-01-2016 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't have additional gauges, but possible locations for them.

A-pillar gets crowded when you have a lot


Dash pods


Overhead


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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-01-2016).]

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Report this Post08-01-2016 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:
I don't have additional gauges, but possible locations for them.
A-pillar gets crowded when you have a lot
Careful. Depending just how you installed and sit when driving... They can make the A pillar a huge blind spot. (Worse then OE.) When that happens, can be a problem to drive on the street to see people and animals.

Related to SEPTA's new buses hitting people etc because of A pillar and OE huge side Mirrors.
Example: http://www.phillymag.com/ne...ngerous-mirror-flaw/

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