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How bad? by tshark
Started on: 07-23-2016 09:19 AM
Replies: 24 (651 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 07-25-2016 08:28 AM
tshark
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Report this Post07-23-2016 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

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Report this Post07-23-2016 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

It's been a while since I've been under mine, but i was replacing all the parts that look like this. I figured 28 years and that condition were a concern. Some of the bolts look very rusty, as do the brake hose clips and portions of the frame and suspension.

I thought my Fiero had rust from being a midwest car. Is this what the Arizona and California cars look like?


I am confused by your post and what you are asking.... How are you protecting someone, by posting pictures under their car? You then mention bolts that look very rusty, and also mention if this is what cars from Arizona look like. Those are 2 different things usually. The pictures do not look bad at all to me. I bet if you just hit the bolts with oil they would look fine. There is no rust I can see on the rails, frame or anywhere else for that matter... There is a lot of surface rust on the bolts, but you can clearly see the threads and such. This is going to happen with parts exposed to weather anywhere after 28 years. I have seen cars that are actually rusted, where the threads on bolts ends can not be seen any longer.

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tshark
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Report this Post07-23-2016 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post07-23-2016 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To me that looks like salt-air rust......not rust belt rust.

What's the difference? Cars parked near salt water get surface rust on everything exposed....high and low. The rust belt, however, concentrates rust on sheet metal around the wheels, often from the inside-out. The surface rust is not pretty, but not a threat to the structure.

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tshark
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Report this Post07-23-2016 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-07-2018).]

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railshot
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Report this Post07-23-2016 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for railshotClick Here to visit railshot's HomePageClick Here to Email railshotSend a Private Message to railshotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

The person who posted the images originally is selling. That car was originally from Arizona and California, I believe. I'm asking about Fieros in general. I've been going after any and all rust I saw on my Fieros. On one, I'd cut out and replaced the entire trunk, because it showed rust.

Look by the base of the spring and the top of the knuckles in the first pic, and the entire second pic. I'm not putting down his car, but would a few new bolts/clips, some hoses, and a bit of elbow grease with sandpaper fix this?

I did crawl under mine after I posted. The coils around the brake lines and tranny cooler lines are rusty. There are some rust spots sprinkled around, but I couldn't see far enough without a lift or a mirror to see much. There is some white dusty stuff and some cobwebs (odd, since I drove it more than 50 miles, 2 days ago).

Comparatively, what should a midwest Fiero's rust look like, vs an Arizona Fiero's rust? I often see posts about rust-free Fieros. The wording is also sometimes ”zero rust”. I'd say mine is a midwest Fiero.



LOL, feel free to use the pictures I posted and ask me about rust up here.
No protection needed..... well, except maybe when I have had a few.

This car was in Green Bay Wisconsin for at least 3 years of it's life, and I can only assume it was driven in the winter some.

Around here, even my 2011 and 2010 HHR's are starting to look like this.
If you drive them year round, surface rust will take hold, then the big problems start.

You are correct in saying some sandpaper, wire brush and a couple of clips would fix it. At the moment it is purely surface rust.
But, if not taken care of it will become rather large holes and effect the integrity of the whole car eventually.
What is the old saying...... an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?
Hell, I was just glad to find one around here that did not have 2 foot holes in the trunk, or no trunk at all.

Worst of all is I no longer have the drive to do anything about it.
It was on my list of things to do, but am moving on.

Let me see if I can find an example of what we have to deal with around here for a "real" midwest Fiero and why they are usually in the junk yards.........

This is actually mild compared to what I have seen..... from my photobucket..... this was an otherwise very clean looking '88 Formula that I was tempted to buy.
Saw this (and blew out my knee and could not drive stick anymore) said no thank you and moved on to the GT.


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Report this Post07-23-2016 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for railshotClick Here to visit railshot's HomePageClick Here to Email railshotSend a Private Message to railshotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

Hmmm. I thought the rust belt extended much lower.

So, you drive a car with that rust, until...? Isn't it easier to treat the rust now?

In the second pic, what is that rubber bushing?


That I believe is the lower control arm bushing, and the reason I had them replaced.
It made a night and day difference in the ride quality.

If I had done it myself, the whole thing would look like new, but alas, I paid someone to do it.
Old fart, hanging up his tool belt.
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Report this Post07-23-2016 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for railshotClick Here to visit railshot's HomePageClick Here to Email railshotSend a Private Message to railshotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just had to throw one more picture in here....
This is the same trunk area of the '88 GT I just took 1/2 hour ago for my craigslist ad.



What you see is a world of difference.
The brownish on the bottom is what I am calling "desert dust" as I have not cleaned a thing on it yet.
LOL.
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JohnWPB
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Report this Post07-23-2016 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
Comparatively, what should a midwest Fiero's rust look like, vs an Arizona Fiero's rust? I often see posts about rust-free Fieros. The wording is also sometimes ”zero rust”. I'd say mine is a midwest Fiero.


Now I am understanding a bit more what you were asking. There is always going to be surface on any type of bare steel part, frame 99% of the time. About the only way to avoid it is to seal it in a climate / humidity controlled environment, and use some sort of oil to coat the metal frequently.

Surface rust is not a problem, it is unsightly, but not harmful for the most part. A good example are exhaust headers, and brake rotors. The surface rust is always going to be there unless a) you paint them, b) you maintain the parts almost daily.

As for the difference between an "Arizona Fieros rust" and a "midwest Fiero". This is more what a Fiero can easily look like in the rust belt:


The photo's above I would definitely consider an Arizona / Texas car, and looks pretty rust free to me.


When I just had the cradle and all suspension out, I took that chance to paint everything that I could. Even this will not prevent rust, but will deter it at least.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-23-2016 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is very good and typical of a car that has not spent much time in snow/salt, but likely spent a lot of time stored outside and subject to temperature changes and the condensation that they cause. The minimal surface rust in a few areas isn't anything to be concerned with because there are not any pitting, flakes or holes. To get a perfect chassis without an surface rust on anything... you have to find a low mile car that has spent its entire life stored indoors.


Generally speaking, I don't buy Fieros any more that are north of Lousiville, KY... Here is the chassis that I built my LS4/F40 car from. It had 200K miles, but was a southern KY car. You can see a little surface rust on the top of the fuel expansion tank and some of the bolt heads, but overall very, very nice.


Here is the metal rear bumper:


Here is the battery tray that came out of it:


When I redid the front suspension about 4 years after buying the car and letting it sit outside for 3 years and 1 year of driving (no winters) here is what the a-arms and upright looked like before I painted them.




Now this is a rusty car. It was an 86 GT parts car I picked up for $250 that came from Michigan. Notice the flaking on the thick crossmember steel as well as on the frame rail around the brake line bracket. It didn't have much left of the rear frame rails and had an 8" hole in the floor right where the rear lower frame attached:



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Raydar
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Report this Post07-23-2016 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I love living in the south!

These are pics of my Formula FB.




My red coupe that I sold a few years back, and the white coupe that I just purchased were both similar. (The white one was also a western car.)
During the suspension rebuild of the white car, the only nut that I couldn't break loose was on top of the right front shock. Ended up sawing through the nut and the rod with a sawzall.

This was the right rear, after I finished.




Even the wrecked Formula parts car I dragged home from Nashville had no rust on it. It did, however, have about a quarter mile of dirt road all over the chassis. I have never seen such a dusty car in my life.

The first pics posted above don't look bad. As others have said, it looks like surface rust. A little bit of oil will probably make it disappear.

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Report this Post07-23-2016 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMontrealClick Here to Email FieroMontrealSend a Private Message to FieroMontrealEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm from the north, that rust is nothing I would be concerned about. It's surface rust, very minimal and you could sand and paint it up easily if you wanted to. If the car is driven in the summers only you could keep it as is for a very long time.
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Report this Post07-23-2016 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for railshotClick Here to visit railshot's HomePageClick Here to Email railshotSend a Private Message to railshotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You would not believe how jealous I am of anyone living south of Kentucky Raydar!

I have seriously been looking at Pontiac Solstices up here, and they want a lot more money for them than in the south.

It may be a supply and demand thing, but everything up here is starting to rust just like the Fiero's did 10 years after they came out, and the Solstice came out in '06, so that says a lot about our wonderful salt..

I just may have to transfer to my companies Atlanta branch just before I retire to find a decent one at a realistic price.
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tshark
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Report this Post07-24-2016 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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tshark
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Report this Post07-24-2016 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

tshark

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Report this Post07-24-2016 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

tshark

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Report this Post07-24-2016 10:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

tshark

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fieroguru
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Report this Post07-24-2016 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
Those control arms scare me. Mine don't appear quite that bad, but I'll probably see when I pull to replace the bushings.


The leading edge of the a-arms on cars with high miles tend to get rock blasted by road debris being kicked up under the front air dam and they they will surface rust due to condensation or driving in the rain (which my car does). The lower a-arms are made from2 sections of stamped metal that are .10" thick. The upper a-arm is likely the same or thicker since it is a single piece. Unless there is pitting, metal flaking, or holes that would cause a significant loss of metal it is just cosmetic.
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tshark
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Report this Post07-24-2016 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-24-2016 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by railshot:
...
I just may have to transfer to my companies Atlanta branch just before I retire to find a decent one at a realistic price.


Come on down. I can probably tell you all the places not to move to.

 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
What is that white, dusty stuff?


It's actually just gray road dust, and crud, from years of driving. The flash makes it look white.
A few hours under the car with a gallon of Mean Green and some scrub brushes (or a pressure washer) would probably make it look like new.
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Report this Post07-24-2016 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
Hmmm. After dealing with the rust, I've been coating such areas with truck bed liner, but someone suggested a plastic coating.


Just make sure to coat the side that is actually rusting. Like the trunk corners, those don't rust from the trunk outward to the frame rails. Thet rust from inside the frame rails through the trunk wall. If you just treat and coat the trunk side, you haven't done much if anything and could have made it worse. If you make things water tight, you have to ensure 100% that water can't ever get inside it, or it will collect water and rust from the inside out even faster.

I generally just use paint. Many of my projects evolve so I will like be back in that area doing work at some point in the future and whatever it is I am doing, once done I don't want it to look like I have been there. Paint is easy to remove, sand and repaint post work with very good results. Tuck bed liner and similar products will be much, much harder to remove and rework.

For low stress and high visibility applications stainless steel bolts are the way to go.
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Report this Post07-24-2016 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for railshotClick Here to visit railshot's HomePageClick Here to Email railshotSend a Private Message to railshotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by tshark:


My '88 with 55K looked exactly like this. I wasn't motivated enough to cut and replace with aluminum, so I treated it, painted it, and moved on.


Hey tshark,
That brownish area literally is desert dust!
If I took a damp cloth and wiped it up you would see nothing but shiny paint under it.
Pictures can be so deceiving sometimes.

LOL, I would love to see some pictures of your Fiero, I can only imagine how nice and clean it is.

I think this has been an excellent post, and down the road many people will be able to learn from it with all the pictures and comments so far.
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Report this Post07-24-2016 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMontrealClick Here to Email FieroMontrealSend a Private Message to FieroMontrealEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm from the north, that rust is nothing I would be concerned about. It's surface rust, very minimal and you could sand and paint it up easily if you wanted to. If the car is driven in the summers only you could keep it as is for a very long time.
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Report this Post07-24-2016 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-25-2016 08:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMontreal:

I'm from the north, that rust is nothing I would be concerned about. It's surface rust, very minimal and you could sand and paint it up easily if you wanted to.


Agreed, that is solid. "Surface rust" isn't anything to worry about and that barely has that.
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