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Adventures in emissions tesing by 87convert
Started on: 07-20-2016 03:24 PM
Replies: 18 (300 views)
Last post by: trivet on 07-22-2016 11:20 AM
87convert
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Report this Post07-20-2016 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87convertSend a Private Message to 87convertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't you love the Federally mandated emissions tests? My daily driver is not legally eligible for an exemption since I drive it to work daily, so every other year I have to de-tune it to pass the ever tightening test. I know that the requirements have changed since I bought the car because I have kept the test sheets for every year and I can see that the requirements are getting tighter. This year I had to do some general housekeeping since I could not see the timing mark or the timing plate clearly. So..............up the car goes on the lift, off come the lower splash shields and I rub, scrub and clean the timing plate and the balancer and coat them with a fresh coal of white paint. New plugs, new air filter, dose with top end cleaner, reduce the timing and off to the test site I go. Wait 15 minutes in line, have the technician tell me to open the Fwd compartment ( I tell him the engine is in the back!) and he does the test. It passes a usual, and back home I go to set the timing where I really want and I am done. Total time spent, about 3 hours. Thank you EPA and Az Dept of Environmental Quality.

Rolland
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post07-20-2016 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1987 convert? V6? Holland Pontiac (or another convertible kit?)

(I had an '87 convertible from Holland Pontiac).
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87convert
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Report this Post07-20-2016 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87convertSend a Private Message to 87convertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The car is a 4cyl with auto. It is not one of the Holland Pontiac cars but was sold through a dealer in Florida. I am the 3rd owner and have had it for about 10 years. Only put the top up once to check that it was all there.

Rolland
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Gall757
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Report this Post07-20-2016 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would invite you to come to Michigan to avoid all the tests.....(they are not Federally mandated after all) but you may have to put the top up...
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IFLYR22
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Report this Post07-20-2016 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IFLYR22Click Here to Email IFLYR22Send a Private Message to IFLYR22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I feel your pain...

-Dave
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jscott1
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Report this Post07-20-2016 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What does the test consist of? Two speed idle or dyno? We had both here in Texas unlit all Fieros became exempt after they got to 25 years old.

My cars were having a harder time passing and I went for at least one waiver, but none of my Fieros are daily drivers anymore.

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87convert
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Report this Post07-20-2016 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87convertSend a Private Message to 87convertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For 81-95 model cars the test covers the evaporative system (gas cap, fuel tank vent, charcoal canister and connecting lines) as well as a dyno emissions test (IM147). My daily driver is an 88 GT with 4.9 and auto trans. If you certify that the car is not used daily, you can get a collectors plate for cars 25 years and older. I have these on 4 of my vehicles but not my daily driver. I just like the car too much not to drive it daily. Some folks cheat and get the collectors plate while still driving daily, but the penalties are draconian so I don't want to go there.

Rolland
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Report this Post07-20-2016 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87convert:

For 81-95 model cars the test covers the evaporative system (gas cap, fuel tank vent, charcoal canister and connecting lines) as well as a dyno emissions test (IM147). My daily driver is an 88 GT with 4.9 and auto trans. If you certify that the car is not used daily, you can get a collectors plate for cars 25 years and older. I have these on 4 of my vehicles but not my daily driver. I just like the car too much not to drive it daily. Some folks cheat and get the collectors plate while still driving daily, but the penalties are draconian so I don't want to go there.

Rolland



I detested the dyno because it meant these folks that don't know where the engine is have to drive my car. More than once I've had disasters. Like the time the guy kept starting in 5th gear and smoking my clutch. I would never cheat on the collector plate we have here, but it still scares me. I might be out for a sunday afternoon drive and suddenly I'm trying to explain what show or event I'm on my way to or from. I'd rather pay full price than worry about that.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-20-2016).]

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dobey
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Report this Post07-20-2016 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still don't get why people complain about this. No different than any other of the many laws you and your property must conform to, as a means of community betterment.

OMG the EPA says you can't have asbestos in your house. Can't have lead paint. Can't fornicate in the streets. What has the world come to.
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Report this Post07-20-2016 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
I detested the dyno because it meant these folks that don't know where the engine is have to drive my car. More than once I've had disasters. Like the time the guy kept starting in 5th gear and smoking my clutch. I would never cheat on the collector plate we have here, but it still scares me. I might be out for a sunday afternoon drive and suddenly I'm trying to explain what show or event I'm on my way to or from. I'd rather pay full price than worry about that.


"Pleasure driving" falls under the classic plates laws, at least in most states. Unless you're driving it to work on a military base or something crazy, the probability that you'll get stopped is pretty minimal. If you drive it daily and there's a spot where police like to sit during commute hours, you might find yourself getting stopped though.
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Report this Post07-21-2016 07:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87convert:

For 81-95 model cars the test covers the evaporative system (gas cap, fuel tank vent, charcoal canister and connecting lines) as well as a dyno emissions test (IM147). My daily driver is an 88 GT with 4.9 and auto trans. If you certify that the car is not used daily, you can get a collectors plate for cars 25 years and older. I have these on 4 of my vehicles but not my daily driver. I just like the car too much not to drive it daily. Some folks cheat and get the collectors plate while still driving daily, but the penalties are draconian so I don't want to go there.

Rolland


Ah, an engine swap. It could be that this engine is just on the edge of meeting the requirements (when new). Have you talked to others who have the same engine in their car (stock car, not Fiero)?

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 07-21-2016).]

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edfiero
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Report this Post07-21-2016 08:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for edfieroClick Here to Email edfieroSend a Private Message to edfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The emission tests aren't a bad thing, but what is absolutely ridiculous is that a car be required to meet a standard that is tighter than when the car was new.
Whoever passed this law, should be thrown out of office on their a$$.

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dobey
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Report this Post07-21-2016 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by edfiero:

The emission tests aren't a bad thing, but what is absolutely ridiculous is that a car be required to meet a standard that is tighter than when the car was new.
Whoever passed this law, should be thrown out of office on their a$$.


I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It's no different than being required to remove all the asbestos from your home that was built in the 50s, or replacing all the lead pipes. Housing codes change. Vehicle codes change. Same difference.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post07-21-2016 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by edfiero:

The emission tests aren't a bad thing, but what is absolutely ridiculous is that a car be required to meet a standard that is tighter than when the car was new.



Is that true? From what have seen is that the engine must past based on standards when manufactured. (honest question, as we don't have emissions testing where I live)
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trivet
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Report this Post07-21-2016 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trivetClick Here to Email trivetSend a Private Message to trivetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Emissions testing is a complete scam. It has nothing to do with "environmental quality". It's simply a way to squeeze more money from an already over taxed citizen. The fact that a lot of cars need to be "de-tuned" to pass, the complete ignorance of the "technicians" and (at times) unrealistic standards, is proof that this is just a complete waste of peoples time and money. But that would be true of most "Environmental Issues". The ultimate goal is to make it so difficult to pass emissions testing that one is forced to buy a new car (and pay a large amount of tax on that) that will then fail the "new" standards in a few years. Vicious cycle that only bleeds more money from those who EARN it, to give it to those who DON'T.
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87convert
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Report this Post07-21-2016 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87convertSend a Private Message to 87convertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes it is true that the testing requirements in Az have gotten tigher over time. The standards my cars must pass are about 20% stricter now than they were 10 years ago. And this too is a vicious circle. The reduced CO and HC standards require running the engine leaner which makes it run hotter which in turn produces more NOx emissions. So while the cars easily pass the CO and HC standards the NOx gets more difficult with each year.

Rolland
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ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-22-2016 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gotta love NC. No emissions test on anything pre 96 (switch over to ODB II).
I swear that at the local place I go for my test, so long as the lights and horn work, the car could be on fire and it would pass!
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[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 07-22-2016).]

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Report this Post07-22-2016 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for edfieroClick Here to Email edfieroSend a Private Message to edfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It's no different than being required to remove all the asbestos from your home that was built in the 50s, or replacing all the lead pipes. Housing codes change. Vehicle codes change. Same difference.


No. Its not. The home comparison isn't the same. Being required to update your home to current building codes is only required when you do some significant remodeling. So long as you don't touch the asbestos there is no problem with having it and it need not be removed. To apply this to a car, we could say that if you do an engine swap, then your car needs to meet the emission requirement from when the ENGINE, not the car, was manufactured, which would actually be fair, because a given engine should be able to meet the standard of when it was made. But it still wouldn't be appropriate to apply the CURRENT standard to a 15 year old engine, that replaced your 30 year old engine. Even assuming a complete rebuild.....a mid 90's engine like an LT1, will never be able to compete with today's PZEV engines on emissions.

[This message has been edited by edfiero (edited 07-22-2016).]

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trivet
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Report this Post07-22-2016 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trivetClick Here to Email trivetSend a Private Message to trivetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by edfiero:
No. Its not. The home comparison isn't the same. Being required to update your home to current building codes is only required when you do some significant remodeling. So long as you don't touch the asbestos there is no problem with having it and it need not be removed. To apply this to a car, we could say that if you do an engine swap, then your car needs to meet the emission requirement from when the ENGINE, not the car, was manufactured, which would actually be fair, because a given engine should be able to meet the standard of when it was made. But it still wouldn't be appropriate to apply the CURRENT standard to a 15 year old engine, that replaced your 30 year old engine. Even assuming a complete rebuild.....a mid 90's engine like an LT1, will never be able to compete with today's PZEV engines on emissions.


Very well put!
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