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Car crashed it's self by Easy8
Started on: 01-30-2016 10:17 AM
Replies: 39 (800 views)
Last post by: theogre on 02-03-2016 03:40 PM
Easy8
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Report this Post01-30-2016 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes it did... Got up this morning and looked down the drive way and the fiero was sitting at an odd angle behind the xterra. Looked closer and the fiero had hit the back of the X and the hitch had crushed the front of the fiero. I had driven the fiero the day before and parked it about 2 feet behind the X . First though was some one hit the back of the car... Nope it's fine. Tried to open the door with the remote unlock and nothing. Car has a dead battery. So it seems the car engaged the starter and slammed into the X. Put it in neutral and threw a jumper cable on it. Sure enough the starter cranks over, with the keys in my hand.... Has any one EVER heard of something this crazy.. I mean I know I am a pain some times but does the car have to commit sucide???? So I am in need of a GT aero front clip and I am going to guess a new starter and probably a battery. Why me????
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Report this Post01-30-2016 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You will probably need a new ignition switch or steering column as well. The starter did it's job and should be fine.

edit: manual trans? what happened to the clutch switch?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 01-30-2016).]

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Easy8
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Report this Post01-30-2016 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes Manual... and I have no idea about the clutch switch. I am feeling the starter did not do its job so well. I am thinking the solenoid is to blame. That by passes all the safety in the car. More to follow on that front later when I can get under the car and disconnect the wiring.
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Report this Post01-30-2016 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've heard this a lot on car talk. The usual diagnosis is the solenoid. Temporary remedy is to leave it parked in neutral, or battery disconnected, chain it up in your yard, or all of the above.
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Easy8
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Report this Post01-30-2016 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

chain it up in your yard, or all of the above.


Never though the car wanted to go out for a night on the town on its own... May have to look into a chain to keep it in check.
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post01-30-2016 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! That's really weird! Two things I've never encountered before... Lol! Take it away Patrick!
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Report this Post01-30-2016 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yup.

 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

I've heard this a lot on car talk. The usual diagnosis is the solenoid. Temporary remedy is to leave it parked in neutral, or battery disconnected, chain it up in your yard, or all of the above.


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Report this Post01-30-2016 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You sure someone didn't put your car in neutral and was trying to steal it? Being a standard maybe they thought they could pop start it without the key, kids are stupid now days when it comes to standards. Most new cars don't even have the wheel lock on them anymore but the Fiero does. So they ended up in the back of your other car.

Steve

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Report this Post01-30-2016 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:
You will probably need a new ignition switch or steering column as well. The starter did it's job and should be fine.
Starter is toast. Starter will die running too long and overheat. May work now but don't trust them.

ignition clutch switches and even the column need careful checking.
If switch(es) was pass power... Starter Sol can fry the switches because draws 20-40 Amps. Switches often won't handle the power for long w/o melting plastic a bit.

Battery and cables are dead too. Cables get damage from overheating running the starter for long time. Damages cables can kill the new starter. "Bad" cables can look ok to you but have more resistance and that makes low volt when new starter runs.

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Report this Post01-30-2016 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First place I would check would be at the starter itself to see if something cause the solenoid to short out, which is exactly what sounds like happened.
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Report this Post01-30-2016 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

Wow! That's really weird! Two things I've never encountered before... Lol! Take it away Patrick!


I've never heard of anything like this before. Not much I can add, except...

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Report this Post01-30-2016 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If "it's aliens", that's ok ... but "it's self"? Hmmmm....
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Report this Post01-30-2016 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:

If "it's aliens", that's ok ... but "it's self"? Hmmmm....


It is self indeed.
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Report this Post01-30-2016 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First, too bad about the incident.

Second, manual transmission cars should be left in neutral with the parking brake on. I've seen cars fire and jump after being parked. Nothing to do with the starter. Usually just after being turned of, as the clutch is being released, the engine sputters and the car jumps a few feet. I haven't seen it on later model cars, but 70s-90s, yes.

Third, are you going to chain the car wherever else you park it, too?
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post01-30-2016 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Easy8:More to follow on that front later when I can get under the car and disconnect the wiring.


Could it be the solenoid feed was mis-routed & the insulation failed, shorting on the 'hot' cable connection at the starter?
Even that possibility seems remote while not moving...

Hope you can post some pics when you find the issue.

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pokeyfiero
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Report this Post01-30-2016 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL. That is krazy! What does your insurance company say?

That ought to be a hoot trying to convince them!!

I had an old bread delivery van with a little 4cyl perkins diesel mysteriously start and it went in reverse through a few fences and into the lot entrance across the road
Before it got caught up in a landscape border.

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Report this Post01-30-2016 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I've never heard of anything like this before. Not much I can add, except...



Not do derail this thread, but what happened to DanDamage?
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Neils88
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Report this Post01-30-2016 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:


Not do derail this thread, but what happened to DanDamage?


Apparently PatrickDamage has taken over on the meme duties...

+1 for solenoid issue most likely culprit. This could be a good thing since it may mean there is no additional damage done to the ignition wire / switch, etc. If the power didn't come from the ignition system then there wouldn't be any power flow through it melt wires etc.
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Easy8
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Report this Post01-30-2016 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Aliens... well maybe
Kids stealing it.. nahh door was locked tight and it only moved 2 feet into the back of the X. No way to push start it. As far as wiring going bad... I have had the car for 4 years and drive it 2 to 3 times a week to work. Only trouble I had was the wiring to the speedo and reveres lights touched the axle and well the axle won.. Will not rule out that one but who knows. I will be under the car tomorrow and let you all know what I find. On a positive note I did pick up a used GT nose for $40 from a guy selling part here that is just 15 mins from me. Good ole Pennocks, have to love it. Now I just need to install the new nose, do some small body work to it and paint it.

[This message has been edited by Easy8 (edited 01-30-2016).]

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Report this Post01-30-2016 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

Not do derail this thread, but what happened to DanDamage?


The last I heard, he wanted to re-enter the ring. Perhaps that explains his disappearance... or yes, it could be aliens.
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Report this Post01-31-2016 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pulled the starter this morning. The solenoid was stuck (gear was engaged into the fly wheel) Took the solenoid off the starter and pulled it apart, Everything looked good. Put it back together and threw 12 volts on the solenoid and it worked like it should. Put some cables on the car and I get 0 volts on the start line from the key at the starter. So with a working starter and a system that reads correctly I decided to change the starter. No way I trust that thing any more. Store does not have one but will get one delivered tomorrow.... So more to follow.
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Report this Post01-31-2016 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for busa_poweredClick Here to Email busa_poweredSend a Private Message to busa_poweredEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Was the parking brake on?
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84fiero123
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Report this Post01-31-2016 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by busa_powered:

Was the parking brake on?


parking brakes on Fiero's are not all that good to begin with, how many people have properly working parking brakes?
Mine works, sometimes.
Steve
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Report this Post01-31-2016 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine holds in drive, but I dunno how much past that, and don't intend to find out.

On a manual, a working parking brake with the car in neutral would have been fine. The e-brake is a safety, for me. I wouldn't jump without a reserve shute., although both can fail.
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Report this Post01-31-2016 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I put grand am front calipers on the rear last year and deleted the parking brake... lesson learned. So I will be looking into a line locker so I have a parking brake again. Car stops better, it does when you are pushing the brake pedal any way, not so much when the starter kicks over in the middle of the night.
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Report this Post02-01-2016 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

I've heard this a lot on car talk. The usual diagnosis is the solenoid. Temporary remedy is to leave it parked in neutral, or battery disconnected, chain it up in your yard, or all of the above.


Solenoid fails in a way that powers the starter?

This is a new one to me.
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Report this Post02-01-2016 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Easy8:

I put grand am front calipers on the rear last year and deleted the parking brake... lesson learned. So I will be looking into a line locker so I have a parking brake again. Car stops better, it does when you are pushing the brake pedal any way, not so much when the starter kicks over in the middle of the night.


Have you modified the electrical system on the car too? Perhaps installed a remote starter?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 02-01-2016).]

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Report this Post02-01-2016 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did water get into the solenoid somehow?
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Report this Post02-01-2016 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Solenoid fails in a way that powers the starter?

This is a new one to me.


I was just looking over a the solenoid and I can't see how that can happen. I know it has happened I'm just saying I'm not seeing how it can make that big of a jump.

I'm going to start leaving cars in neutral and using the E Brake.
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Report this Post02-01-2016 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

I'm going to start leaving cars in neutral and using the E Brake.


Are you afraid of being struck by an asteroid as well?

This scenario of a car's starter engaging itself is so highly unlikely that IMO it isn't something to be the least bit leery of.
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Report this Post02-01-2016 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe there is a dead cat under there now. We are not yet to the bottom of this problem...
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Report this Post02-01-2016 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First all cats are alive and accounted for. Car is bone stock, have owned if for over 6 years.. daily driver for years now a 2 to 3 time a week. No issues with the starter ever.. I am going to regret saying that I am sure. Put a new starter on the car this afternoon, hooked some jumper cables up and let it sit for 10 mins or so, (chocked in neutral of course) nothing crazy happened. So I threw the key and the car cranked over and fired right up. Let it run for awhile and the took it for a drive. All works well. So now it sits (in neutral) over night to see if the battery holds a charge. I did not see anything wrong or in the solenoid at all... it was just stuck until I took it apart and put it back together and viola it works great.
I would have to agree about how rare a solenoid doing that is (and now I am looking up in the night sky for that meter) but since it happened to me I now keep the parking brake on the xterra and I am shopping for a system for the fiero. If you all want pics of the front of the car I have them but I did not take any of the starter and it is now discount autos problem.
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Report this Post02-01-2016 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pokeyfieroClick Here to visit pokeyfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email pokeyfieroSend a Private Message to pokeyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Are you afraid of being struck by an asteroid as well?

.


I do keep an eye out.

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Report this Post02-01-2016 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for viperineClick Here to Email viperineSend a Private Message to viperineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Easy8:

I put grand am front calipers on the rear last year and deleted the parking brake... lesson learned. So I will be looking into a line locker so I have a parking brake again.


Line locks, such as Hurst or Summit's own, are only intended to be held for so long. As in a matter of seconds. Not to be used for parking assistance overnight. The kits all come with momentary switches that must be held down. Wiring a rocker switch can be done, but the solenoids aren't intended to hold for more than 30 or 45 seconds, if I recall correctly. I looked into this idea myself for my 85 Trans Am, which suffers the exact same parking brake woes that the Fiero does. In the end, my trans am and both of my Fieros have perfectly functioning stock e-brakes. And no, it wasn't cheap, nor easy.
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Report this Post02-02-2016 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have a remote starter on it. I have heard of them starting themselves. There was talk of making that illegal here when a family died in their home when a remote starter equipped car did that in an attached garage and filled the house with carbon monoxide. Here anyway, its also illegal to have your car running without the driver seat belted in...NO winter warm up stuff.
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Report this Post02-02-2016 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Easy8:
I put grand am front calipers on the rear last year and deleted the parking brake... lesson learned. So I will be looking into a line locker so I have a parking brake again. Car stops better, it does when you are pushing the brake pedal any way, not so much when the starter kicks over in the middle of the night.
Line locks are Temporary use items w/ driver in or very close to the car. Line locks to replace Ebrake can Causes more problems. Two common examples:
Brake seals etc are not made to take pressure for hours to days and will leak enough to loose pressure and car will move. Often w/o obvious fluid on the ground. Loosing a few drops can loose allot of pressure.
Caliper piston seals can deform from constant pressure and not return the piston correctly cause pad to drag the rotor. That seal is also piston return "spring."

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-02-2016).]

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Report this Post02-03-2016 03:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageClick Here to Email AustralianSend a Private Message to AustralianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought knight rider wasn't a fiero.
At least your fiero starts.
..... sorry to hear never heard this was actually a problem before.
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Report this Post02-03-2016 05:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Easy8Send a Private Message to Easy8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks.. there is a silver lining I guess. When I went looking for the new nose for the car the guy had a set of seats for sale. Driver (cloth) with no rips in it.. Passenger has one small tear. So those will go in the car in the next few days. Also picked up some screws for the marker lights I have needed and a new GT steering wheel. So now the car will look better.. well it will when I get to paint the nose. It is an SE nose so the first 3 inches of molding will have groves. Maybe I can find something to fill that in before paint.
I can find hydraulic aftermarket parking brakes and I assume they use the same set up for the cylinders so I do not see how they would fail if I put in a manual line lock. I guess more research needs to be done.
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Report this Post02-03-2016 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mopars used to have their parking brake as a manual linkage drum style ON THE DRIVESHAFT. Of course that wouldnt work on a Fiero, and it would take some elaborate engineering to put something on the drive axles. One I used to use a long time ago that was cheap and foolproof was a wooden wedge block I put by the tire
Cars parking pawls were broke and ebrakes didnt work. I still use a pair of wedges to park the plane.
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Report this Post02-03-2016 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
Mopars used to have their parking brake as a manual linkage drum style ON THE DRIVESHAFT.
Many trucks do this still. Easier to hold the vehicle w/ load because the pumpkin add more brake effort at the wheels. Example: Ford Super w/ 4 wheel disk does this. Is on trans end of drive shaft I think.
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