This new magazine is by Don Keefe past Pontiac author and writer for Pontiac Enthusiast and High Performance Pontiac.
Don has driven and written about most of the great Pontiacs in history. He also was recently the editor of Smoke Signals Magazine for the POCI. He really made it into something worth reading. With Pontiac Perfection he is taking that to the next level and making it something worth reading.
Now at this point there is no subscription. You can get the electronic version or you can opt for a print. You will for not have to buy them month to month. Selling magazines are tough anymore and to start one is a great undertaking. I spoke to Don and he is taking this in steps and hopes to continue to expand the magazine.
There is a future issue already set to feature a Fiero so you may want to keep an eye out for that. The initial issues are not cheap but I expect things may get better with more circulation. If you want a Pontiac magazine it will need your support. I have already ordered the first two issues.
Note Don also has a new book that will feature many of the Project X stories from High Performance Pontiac. The book will cover 1939-1980 and he has said there will be a second issue with the later years including the Fiero.
So if you are one that has complained that we have lost out magazines on Pontiac and we have few people willing to publish anything on the Fiero here is your chance to support someone who will fix this issue but he needs all our help.
This magazine is something different as it is a Pontiac magazine owned and written by a real Pontiac enthusiast and owner. He also has more connections to people from Pontiac to get great stories and information than just about anyone.
If there ever were a book to be written about the Fiero I would say Don is the guy to do it.
So here is a chance to support something we all want and will help our car and hobby in the future more than anything.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-15-2015).]
I like this idea. I've always liked pontiacs. I would like to buy the issues but I have a question. How does downloading magazine work? Does it come out like an "e-book" where you digital pages to turn?
How does downloading magazine work? Does it come out like an "e-book" where you digital pages to turn?
Its kind of a typical magazine app, you have controls at the bottom with forward and back arrows to "turn" pages. The website itself still needs some work, but I know Don got this done pretty darn fast, since he did not find out he and Smoke Signals would be parting ways until the end of July.
Don turned Smoke Signals from a newsletter into a worth-while, well respected magazine.
Unfortunately now that he is not the SS editor it's just an advertising filled confusing nightmare.
I'm being kind to just say it sucks!
I wish Don was still SS editor.
Yes that is from what I heard the reason he left. Many of the old timers at POCI wanted to return to the old Magazine that had been crappy for decades and drop what the new one represented. So Don and them parted ways.
There has been a long fight with the POCI internally where some of the old timers want to never change or accept post 1979 Pontiac models and the side that wants to include all Pontiac models. This fight has gone of for years and shows it's ugly head from time to time.
The Astute members know that if they are not inclusive to all Pontiacs the club will dwindle and die. Not all of the collectors buying up many of the GTO's are going to join anymore and the internet has killed their classifieds worth. Add to this no more new Pontiac's are being made so there is a limited number of owners to be had anymore.
Don really was heading in the right way and could have really turned the club in the right direction but the old school put a stop to it.
I saw this happen with a past club SS editor too. He was trying to bring change and wanted a story on my Fiero as he wanted to include all Pontiacs. He was gone after a short while too.
I love GTO's too but how many stories can you read on a GTO or Bonneville?
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-15-2015).]
Yes that is from what I heard the reason he left. Many of the old timers at POCI wanted to return to the old Magazine that had been crappy for decades and drop what the new one represented. So Don and them parted ways.
There has been a long fight with the POCI internally where some of the old timers want to never change or accept post 1979 Pontiac models and the side that wants to include all Pontiac models. This fight has gone of for years and shows it's ugly head from time to time.
The Astute members know that if they are not inclusive to all Pontiacs the club will dwindle and die. Not all of the collectors buying up many of the GTO's are going to join anymore and the internet has killed their classifieds worth. Add to this no more new Pontiac's are being made so there is a limited number of owners to be had anymore.
Don really was heading in the right way and could have really turned the club in the right direction but the old school put a stop to it.
I saw this happen with a past club SS editor too. He was trying to bring change and wanted a story on my Fiero as he wanted to include all Pontiacs. He was gone after a short while too.
I love GTO's too but how many stories can you read on a GTO or Bonneville?
I agree I have been a POCI member since 1979. I too love old Pontiacs, old Oaklands as well as current Pontiacs. Having sold Pontiacs from 77-83, 92-2002, I liked the new Pontiacs even though they had a "corporate" engine. Pontiac had better styling, better interiors, better suspensions than cheby, olds and buick. Just look at the Last years of the Firebird vs Camaro. What a difference in exterior style, interior and seats and the uniqueness Pontiac put into them vs cheby. I sent as I supposed many others have letters asking the editor to do some articles about the Fiero. One Pontiac that didn't share a platform with the whiners/loosers at cheby. Unfortunately most of my generation are stuck on GTO's. They are ok but I'd take a Firebird over one any day. Or the G8 GTP is better than any old GTO.
I have been a POCI member since 1983 and I have never seen so much advertising in the SS in all the years I have been a member as I have in this last issue.
If POCI is going to take in all this advertising money from all these ads the my dues should be FREE!!!!!
And don't even get me started on how confusing the "new" SS is. It's a regular fustercluck.
The ONE thing that kept me a member of POCI "was" the Smoke Signals.
My dues were due last week...... I haven't paid them yet.
I agree I have been a POCI member since 1979. I too love old Pontiacs, old Oaklands as well as current Pontiacs. Having sold Pontiacs from 77-83, 92-2002, I liked the new Pontiacs even though they had a "corporate" engine. Pontiac had better styling, better interiors, better suspensions than cheby, olds and buick. Just look at the Last years of the Firebird vs Camaro. What a difference in exterior style, interior and seats and the uniqueness Pontiac put into them vs cheby. I sent as I supposed many others have letters asking the editor to do some articles about the Fiero. One Pontiac that didn't share a platform with the whiners/loosers at cheby. Unfortunately most of my generation are stuck on GTO's. They are ok but I'd take a Firebird over one any day. Or the G8 GTP is better than any old GTO.
Well Pontiac always was based on a Chevy for many years. The real difference was their engines as it was the soul of the car and the extra engineering they offered in the past that you just could not get in a Chevy. Some people know about this some don't. Little things like the first Gen Firebirds were one inch lower and held their own suspension tuning. It was a Camaro but really was worth the extra money as it was more than just styling.
I too like the later years too but I am honest and many of the models were just better styled Chevys. For a long time I though the old timers were just narrow minded but I can understand their side as I grew up around many Pontiac Collectors and racers and have been lucky enough to ride and drive most of the great cars of the past. Nothing better than a Ram Air IV, 455 SD or any of the tri power 421/389 cars. The new cars just lacked a lot of what the old cars offered.
But the fact is they are still Pontiac's and some still held some special features along the way.
I like em all but I do like to point out to some older Pontiac snobs if they get in my face the 1984-88 Fiero Iron duke was more Pontiac than their GTO. It was a Pontiac only model, held a Pontiac engine and was built in Pontiac MI. You do not get more Pontiac than that. Also it was built with that rebel Delorean like spirit. To me this really represented the last true Pontiac.
I have been a POCI member since 1983 and I have never seen so much advertising in the SS in all the years I have been a member as I have in this last issue.
If POCI is going to take in all this advertising money from all these ads the my dues should be FREE!!!!!
And don't even get me started on how confusing the "new" SS is. It's a regular fustercluck.
The ONE thing that kept me a member of POCI "was" the Smoke Signals.
My dues were due last week...... I haven't paid them yet.
I was thinking about rejoining because of what Don was doing and then I saw him and he said he left. Well I will spend my Dues on his new magazine as that is what I really wanted in the first place.
I will not condemn all of POCI as they really do have some really good people. But there are still some that hurt the club more than they help it.
Another sore area is original cars vs. modified. The way I see it that is the owners call and often the modified cars are cars saved from the scrap heap. These people should not be scorned. I do believe if it is an older car it should be Pontiac powered but as in modifications there is nothing wrong with that if that is what the owner wants. They may be taking a hit on resale but to them it is worth it so they should be accepted as any other owner. They are the ones who really make the meets interesting as how many restored 65 GTO's do you really want to look at all afternoon?
Originally posted by hyperv6: I was thinking about rejoining because of what Don was doing and then I saw him and he said he left. Well I will spend my Dues on his new magazine as that is what I really wanted in the first place.
I will not condemn all of POCI as they really do have some really good people. But there are still some that hurt the club more than they help it.
Another sore area is original cars vs. modified. The way I see it that is the owners call and often the modified cars are cars saved from the scrap heap. These people should not be scorned. I do believe if it is an older car it should be Pontiac powered but as in modifications there is nothing wrong with that if that is what the owner wants. They may be taking a hit on resale but to them it is worth it so they should be accepted as any other owner. They are the ones who really make the meets interesting as how many restored 65 GTO's do you really want to look at all afternoon?
I'm in the "original" crowd but within reason. If a guy modifies a car that isn't worth much either way or is too far gone to make right who cares, I like modified cars as well.
Years ago my buddy took his '70 GTO convertible to the POCI convention, put it in the class for '70 GTO's and got bounced by a guy with another '70 GTO convertible. My buddy got busted into the semi-modified class because his "right as rain" '70 has '71-'72 sport mirrors on the doors instead of the chrome pot-metal mirrors the car came with.
My buddy quit POCI and never went to another convention, not even as a spectator and I don't blame him.
I like POCI but it was wearing thin, then Don came along and made it worthwhile. I don't know what I'm going to do now.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 12-15-2015).]
Well Pontiac always was based on a Chevy for many years. The real difference was their engines as it was the soul of the car and the extra engineering they offered in the past that you just could not get in a Chevy. Some people know about this some don't. Little things like the first Gen Firebirds were one inch lower and held their own suspension tuning. It was a Camaro but really was worth the extra money as it was more than just styling.
I too like the later years too but I am honest and many of the models were just better styled Chevys. For a long time I though the old timers were just narrow minded but I can understand their side as I grew up around many Pontiac Collectors and racers and have been lucky enough to ride and drive most of the great cars of the past. Nothing better than a Ram Air IV, 455 SD or any of the tri power 421/389 cars. The new cars just lacked a lot of what the old cars offered.
But the fact is they are still Pontiac's and some still held some special features along the way.
I like em all but I do like to point out to some older Pontiac snobs if they get in my face the 1984-88 Fiero Iron duke was more Pontiac than their GTO. It was a Pontiac only model, held a Pontiac engine and was built in Pontiac MI. You do not get more Pontiac than that. Also it was built with that rebel Delorean like spirit. To me this really represented the last true Pontiac.
Umm your statement that Pontiac was based on chebies isn't true. Some models maybe but not all. 92 & up Bonneville's shared the platform with Olds and Buick. No chebies on that platform.
Umm your statement that Pontiac was based on chebies isn't true. Some models maybe but not all. 92 & up Bonneville's shared the platform with Olds and Buick. No chebies on that platform.
It was a generality. The FWD H body was more the exceptions than the rule. I think you understand what I meant.
Sunbird Sunfire shared with the Cavalier
GP shared with Lumina/Monte
T 1000 shared with the Chevette
Firebird shared with the Camaro
GTO/Lemans shared with the Chevelle
I could go on and on. Also there were variations of models that used Buick and Old platforms over the years not just the H body. But in the end the bulk of the later Pontiacs were Chevy bases and most performance applications were Chevy V8 based. They also used the 3800 SC but everyone but Cadillac did too.
My point was in the past Pontiac would take what they were given and do much more with it. The first gen Bird is a prime example where just copying Chevy was not enough. They had little time to change the styling much but Delorean demanded more changes to engines and to the suspension. Herb Adams and his staff did much of the work and in the end the Firebird was seen as themuch better engineered car. It gave buyers a reason to pay more.
Now get to the 4th gen. Other than styling the cars really were no different. Pontiac would liked to have changed it but just could not get the go ahead on what they really wanted to do. We saw peaks like the 3rd gen Indy pace car with The Turbo GN engine but too few of them were built as it was.
I even saw the car Pontiac put the C4 independent rear suspension under the 4th gen Bird. They just could not get the go ahead. Many do not realize that the car was designed to hold that rear suspension but they never could get approval to move forward with it.
There is so much to this topic you could do a web site on it alone.
It was a generality. The FWD H body was more the exceptions than the rule. I think you understand what I meant.
Sunbird Sunfire shared with the Cavalier
GP shared with Lumina/Monte
T 1000 shared with the Chevette
Firebird shared with the Camaro
GTO/Lemans shared with the Chevelle
I could go on and on. Also there were variations of models that used Buick and Old platforms over the years not just the H body. But in the end the bulk of the later Pontiacs were Chevy bases and most performance applications were Chevy V8 based. They also used the 3800 SC but everyone but Cadillac did too.
My point was in the past Pontiac would take what they were given and do much more with it. The first gen Bird is a prime example where just copying Chevy was not enough. They had little time to change the styling much but Delorean demanded more changes to engines and to the suspension. Herb Adams and his staff did much of the work and in the end the Firebird was seen as themuch better engineered car. It gave buyers a reason to pay more.
Now get to the 4th gen. Other than styling the cars really were no different. Pontiac would liked to have changed it but just could not get the go ahead on what they really wanted to do. We saw peaks like the 3rd gen Indy pace car with The Turbo GN engine but too few of them were built as it was.
I even saw the car Pontiac put the C4 independent rear suspension under the 4th gen Bird. They just could not get the go ahead. Many do not realize that the car was designed to hold that rear suspension but they never could get approval to move forward with it.
There is so much to this topic you could do a web site on it alone.
Interesting very interesting. Thank you for the information and insight.
Originally posted by hyperv6: Now get to the 4th gen. Other than styling the cars really were no different. Pontiac would liked to have changed it but just could not get the go ahead on what they really wanted to do. We saw peaks like the 3rd gen Indy pace car with The Turbo GN engine but too few of them were built as it was.
I even saw the car Pontiac put the C4 independent rear suspension under the 4th gen Bird. They just could not get the go ahead. Many do not realize that the car was designed to hold that rear suspension but they never could get approval to move forward with it.
There is so much to this topic you could do a web site on it alone.
I had a third and a fourth gen Firebird and I would have bought the Pontiac version for styling alone. But the lack of any mechanical Pontiac bits was disappointing. The fact that Pontiac engines were long gone by then was disappointing. I guess we were happy to even have a copied Camaro which we don't have anymore. Some of us live in the past I guess. Every now and then I look at a Turbo Firebird on eBay and wish I could have one, but they are only getting more rare and expensive. That was probably the high water mark for Pontiac (in the 80s anyway), even though it was built off the Buick engine.
I had a third and a fourth gen Firebird and I would have bought the Pontiac version for styling alone. But the lack of any mechanical Pontiac bits was disappointing. The fact that Pontiac engines were long gone by then was disappointing. I guess we were happy to even have a copied Camaro which we don't have anymore. Some of us live in the past I guess. Every now and then I look at a Turbo Firebird on eBay and wish I could have one, but they are only getting more rare and expensive. That was probably the high water mark for Pontiac (in the 80s anyway), even though it was built off the Buick engine.
Back at the time I though the old timers were just stuck in the past but as time went on I got what they meant. It did not make me hate the newer cars but I understood their point of view. Even today when someone tried to make a new Camaro into a Firebird it really drives the point home.
I have told people for a long time the TA 3.8 Turbo is a real car to buy and collect. Not only is it a pace car but the best platform the 3.8 Turbo ever had. The numbers really are limited vs. other cars claiming to be limited. I see the same at some point for the 2+2 as it was never loved and expensive back in the day. There are not many around and it was built for NASCAR racing just as the Superbird. The Daytona and Superbirds were unloved for many years and then they took off because of supply and demand.
People are always looking for collector cars and these are two that are in plain sight and many pass them over and one day will regret it.
One other that may be worth something from the 80's is the GTA TA with the Notchback rear. It was an option and very few were sold. I think in the hundreds. We had one here in town but I have not seen it in a while. These were not the best looking cars but it is as about as rare as you can get in this day and age.
I always saw the TA as the better looking Camaro in the later years. Actually Pontiac as a whole was just a better Chevy in many of the models.
I still want a '79 Trans Am with the W72 package. The last of the Pontiac 400 cube V8s.
Gotta love the enthusiasts at Pontiac back in the day. Pontiac already knew in the 80's they were going to the "corporate" engine model and the Pontiac V8 would be phased out. 1978 was the last year they made 400 cube engines. But Pontiac being Pontiac said, there's no way in hell the 10th Anniversary Trans Am won't have a Pontiac 400 as an option. So in '78 they build and stockpiled a bunch of extra 400 engines for the '79 model year. The 10th Anniversary cars got them first, and after those orders were filled they were available in regular Trans Ams while they lasted. The only way the 400 was sold in '79 was with a 4-speed stick and WS6 suspension. Period.
I still want a '79 Trans Am with the W72 package. The last of the Pontiac 400 cube V8s.
Gotta love the enthusiasts at Pontiac back in the day. Pontiac already knew in the 80's they were going to the "corporate" engine model and the Pontiac V8 would be phased out. 1978 was the last year they made 400 cube engines. But Pontiac being Pontiac said, there's no way in hell the 10th Anniversary Trans Am won't have a Pontiac 400 as an option. So in '78 they build and stockpiled a bunch of extra 400 engines for the '79 model year. The 10th Anniversary cars got them first, and after those orders were filled they were available in regular Trans Ams while they lasted. The only way the 400 was sold in '79 was with a 4-speed stick and WS6 suspension. Period.
That is correct! I sold a few of them. One customer who is a retired Trans Am racer ordered his with out air and with out t-tops- makes the car lighter he said. After it came in he contacted Jill Rogers at Pontiac and she was able to confirm that 200-212 1979 Trans Ams with the 400- 4 speed WS6's were built with his combination. He sold it a few years(10-15) ago. Low mileage nice car. Some years later I was working at a Chevy store and a young kid traded a red one in with the same package. Unfortunately it had been driven all year long and was rusty. The used car manager didn't have a clue(as most have no idea on collectors cars) so I said put my name on it for $250.00. I had it and was slowing fixing it when the ex talked me into getting rid of it. Then a little later the ole bag handed me a divorce. That was 16 years ago.
In my file cabinet at home I have a car magazine that did a test of the 79 Trans Am WS6, Z/28 & Corvette. They rated the T/A the best car period! The Z was a joke and the vette was hard to drive at the limits back in 79. And for anyone with a 79 I have lots of NOS brochures that I will give away. Cover the cost of packing and mailing.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 12-31-2015).]
The one to find is one of the few TA's that were built in 79 that were not 10th ann cars with the 400. A few were built and there is good investment value there.
I have a friend who has one odd ball. It had a 301 in his 79. You see few of them today but then again few people look for them too. Rare in this case is not always good.
The one to find is one of the few TA's that were built in 79 that were not 10th ann cars with the 400. A few were built and there is good investment value there.
I have a friend who has one odd ball. It had a 301 in his 79. You see few of them today but then again few people look for them too. Rare in this case is not always good.
Wow I had a customer order one with that combo in the dark blue that was so popular that year.
I have told people for a long time the TA 3.8 Turbo is a real car to buy and collect. Not only is it a pace car but the best platform the 3.8 Turbo ever had. The numbers really are limited vs. other cars claiming to be limited. I see the same at some point for the 2+2 as it was never loved and expensive back in the day. There are not many around and it was built for NASCAR racing just as the Superbird. The Daytona and Superbirds were unloved for many years and then they took off because of supply and demand. ...
Makes me envious that the Fiero pace car sold to the public did not have the Superduty or anything other than the Duke. Imagine how popular the 2000 Fiero pace car replicas would be if they had a one-off engine more powerful than any stock Fiero?
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-01-2016).]
Makes me envious that the Fiero pace car sold to the public did not have the Superduty or anything other than the Duke. Imagine how popular the 2000 Fiero pace car replicas would be if they had a one-off engine more powerful than any stock Fiero?
Imagine if they had just put the Scoop and Centerline wheels on it OE. I was disappointed the first time I saw a pace car. At least on in our area added the wheels and scoop. Not sure what became of it.
Wow I had a customer order one with that combo in the dark blue that was so popular that year.
About all I ever saw were 10th ann cars with the mix of Old auto and 400 Man or mostly Olds 403 Autos.
I remover a few 301 cars but not many and only saw a few 400 mans with out the 10th ann.
The most 301 cars I saw were 80-81.
Just to find a 301 Turbo with a working turbo can be rare today too.
I had a customer that had the special 78 Gold edition TA. It has a 400 4 speed and a Turbo kit he had installed. That thing had a lot of lag but once it got spooled up it went. Made the stock 400 feel like a pig.
It finally broke the crank and he fixed it and traded it in for a Jag. That just made things work as it broke down all the time. He then bought a Benz 190 E something. It was the one that came with a Coswoth modified engine for touring car racing. They only made so many of them. It handled good but was not what I would call lighting fast.
[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 01-01-2016).]
Originally posted by hyperv6: About all I ever saw were 10th ann cars with the mix of Old auto and 400 Man or mostly Olds 403 Autos.
I remover a few 301 cars but not many and only saw a few 400 mans with out the 10th ann.
The most 301 cars I saw were 80-81.
Just to find a 301 Turbo with a working turbo can be rare today too.
I had a customer that had the special 78 Gold edition TA. It has a 400 4 speed and a Turbo kit he had installed. That thing had a lot of lag but once it got spooled up it went. Made the stock 400 feel like a pig.
It finally broke the crank and he fixed it and traded it in for a Jag. That just made things work as it broke down all the time. He then bought a Benz 190 E something. It was the one that came with a Coswoth modified engine for touring car racing. They only made so many of them. It handled good but was not what I would call lighting fast.
Here in Grand Rapids were I sold Pontiac's, we sold a good portion of non 10th anniversary cars with the WS6/400/4speed. Also sold a lot of 403 Olds T/A's and even some 301's. We sold a lot of the Black Special Editions also. I had a nice Gold T/A for a demo with the 403. And later the boss had me drive a 301 T/A with T-tops. I sold 2 10th ann cars with the 400 and 1 with the 403. We ordered one and traded for the other. For some reason not many were allocated to west Michigan. One of the cars I sold was at a small dealer in Fremont. It was the 403 car. We Dealer traded for it and I drove it off the showroom and back to GR. The customer was happy that i drove it and not some kid. LOL
Sounds like he needs a better domain name. Sounds like a cross between Pontiac and Lexus. We drive excitement (Pontiac) Passionate pursuit of perfection (Lexus)
