What may appears to be my first big problem just reared its head. Since I'm a little undereducated on what's going on. So I'm driving down the road and suddenly I realize my car won't rev past 4000-4500 without sounding really rough. The car is still shifting and there's a repeated clicking going on. Can anyone please help! If need be I can try to upload a video.
Formula automatic. It appears perhaps somewhat intermittent? I drove the car to a friends house when I first noticed the issue and after it sat a while and I drove home it was fine at first and then acted up again. The ticking repeats itself and quickens as RPMs climb. It's akin to that of a metronome for those who are musically inclined. I took a video if anyone has a good suggestion of how to upload it
I should also add it's not overheating (at least not alarmingly fast, it was at 220 after about 10-15 minutes of running) and there is no check engine light on.
[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 12-13-2015).]
Ticking can also be an exhaust leak, look at the firewall side manifold and the port closest to the transmission for cracks, not revving can be a clogged cat, or fuel pump/filter problems.
Here is the video! Thanks for the suggestions so far guys, I'm just not to versed in this. I'll be taking the car to my auto tech class but that won't be until Monday, should I be able to drive it or make other arrangements until then?
The car is cat delete straight piped.
[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 12-13-2015).]
Tappet bad collapsed,bent pushrod,flat cam,valve seat,broken spring,rocker of its rocker. Pull the valve cover. If all looks good pressure test the cylinders.
Oh and check your oil. You might not have any. LOL
Also the volume of the stereo just might be too low.
[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 12-13-2015).]
I have about a quart of oil in the garage I can add, but I'm pretty sure I have oil. At this point should i drive the car to work tomorrow and then to the shop on Monday? Or should I have the vehicle towed to my auto tech shop (I have Triple A with free towing within 50 miles). Luckily I have use of the full shop and a very skilled teacher who helps me out, unfortunately winter break starts this week so it looks like I'll be without a car.
I have access to another vehicle for work tomorrow so I'll probably drive that, but should I add oil tonight even if the car isn't going to be running?
I think I'm going to call it a night for tonight. Won't do myself much good fretting over something I can't do anything about for at least another 48 hours. I'll leave the car parked for now and get it into my auto tech class on Monday, should I drive or have it towed?
Thanks for the help so far everyone! I'll keep things posted.
[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 12-13-2015).]
I have access to another vehicle for work tomorrow so I'll probably drive that, but should I add oil tonight even if the car isn't going to be running?
Just in case you don't know, checking your oil while the car hasn't been started is going to give you a more accurate reading. If you just turned the car off after it reached operating temp, your dipstick could say you have none.
Also check the viscosity of the oil. Put on some gloves and grab the oil off the dipstick and run it between your fingers. Does it feel like water? Or do your fingers slide effortlessly. Also as Patrick mentioned, a stethoscope will help cause you can see inside the engine. I wouldn't recommend driving it for the time being. Doing so can make the problem worse, and might cause other things to break/ wear down more.
------------------ Every fiero has a story, It's our job to keep that story alive.
The dipstick read that it was in operating range, but I will check again in the morning as the car was running recently. Thanks again everyone. I'll likely call triple A and have the vehicle towed Monday.
So out of curiosity and fear as well, when you say "not good" Patrick how not good are we talking? I understand that we don't know everything yet but if it's what you think, the loose lifter, how bad are we talking? Is this a "rod knock"? If the engines shot, going forward what would be my best option? Sorry for all the questions, just a teenager freaking out a bit!
So out of curiosity and fear as well, when you say "not good" Patrick how not good are we talking? I understand that we don't know everything yet but if it's what you think, the loose lifter, how bad are we talking? Is this a "rod knock"?
Danm it, I had a whole long post and I accidentally vaporized it!
It's not a rod knock. However, it's "not good" either compared to something minor like an exhaust leak created by a loose manifold bolt.
Find out what side the "tick" is coming from, remover the valve cover, and have a look. Report back and we'll go from there.
Thank you! I'll be having the car towed into the shop on Monday almost definitely. However, this class is at my high school, we have 4 bays and about 100 others students with cars, usually I'm able to in though and my teacher is really good so hopefully we can get something going. Unfortunately it's finals week and our last week until Christmas break so I may not be able to work on it until after we return
Thanks again everyone, I'll get an update hopefully tomorrow!
So out of curiosity and fear as well, when you say "not good" Patrick how not good are we talking? I understand that we don't know everything yet but if it's what you think, the loose lifter, how bad are we talking? Is this a "rod knock"? If the engines shot, going forward what would be my best option? Sorry for all the questions, just a teenager freaking out a bit!
Lol! Fear not, Dylpro, 'freaking teenagers' are welcome here. Lots of help is available from some really experienced owners. The members here are always happy to see new people interested in the Fiero hobby.
Keep in mind, however, that a lot of the owners who offer advice and help are pretty adept at keeping the old cars going and are sometimes worried about those who are attempting to maintain their Fieros without the benefit of much, if any, mechanical experience or natural aptitude.
For example, your questions about oil would lead some to think you're not well-versed in lubrication principles. To be blunt, it's good to know all the fluid systems' purposes and how to check them; those are basic maintenance requirements. Here's the info from my Formula owner's manual:
My '84 and '86 owner's manuals have separate maintenance sections that cover a lot more procedures; here's the '86 oil page:
It's great that you're in an auto-tech course. I suspect your teacher will be able to pinpoint the source of the noise quickly. In the unlikely event 'the engine's shot', inexpensive replacements are readily available. I bought an '87 parts car and sold more stuff from it than it cost, so I had a free engine to swap into my '86. Good luck!
Lol! Fear not, Dylpro, 'freaking teenagers' are welcome here. Lots of help is available from some really experienced owners. The members here are always happy to see new people interested in the Fiero hobby.
Keep in mind, however, that a lot of the owners who offer advice and help are pretty adept at keeping the old cars going and are sometimes worried about those who are attempting to maintain their Fieros without the benefit of much, if any, mechanical experience or natural aptitude.
For example, your questions about oil would lead some to think you're not well-versed in lubrication principles. To be blunt, it's good to know all the fluid systems' purposes and how to check them; those are basic maintenance requirements. Here's the info from my Formula owner's manual:
My '84 and '86 owner's manuals have separate maintenance sections that cover a lot more procedures; here's the '86 oil page:
It's great that you're in an auto-tech course. I suspect your teacher will be able to pinpoint the source of the noise quickly. In the unlikely event 'the engine's shot', inexpensive replacements are readily available. I bought an '87 parts car and sold more stuff from it than it cost, so I had a free engine to swap into my '86. Good luck!
Thank you very much! I think I will invest in a factory service manual. I feel a little dumb about the oil thing, I do know about the lubrication properties and that but I just have to become a little more religious when it comes to changing oil. I've been meaning to do it myself at the auto tech course but never got around to it. I'm about 500-600 miles over the 3500 miles since my last change admittedly, but checked it about 3 weeks ago and it was still good.
I love my Fiero and I hope to preserve it well, unfortunately it's a mix of a collector car (to me at least, maybe not to others) and a daily driver. So it's still taking daily wear.
Luckily AAA came in handy again for the second time with this car. Having it towed to the shop today and I'll be looking at it around 1 today. My teacher suggested that perhaps one of the spark plugs were loose because we just pulled the front 3 plugs recently to check if they were okay, when they all were we didn't end up checking the back. If the plugs are good then we're going to open the valve cover. I'll keep everyone posted! Thanks again!
Well had the car towed to my school today. At first we started it right up and no ticking. Drove around the parking lot for about 10 minutes and nothing. I have a spare the last hour of the day so I left and drove around town and sure enough it started not even 5 minutes from leaving so I drove back and tomorrow we'll be pulling the valve cover.
Question, I thought I read somewhere saying that removing the valve cover isn't possible without removing the upper plenum. Is this true? Just so I know going into tomorrow.
At first we started it right up and no ticking. Drove around the parking lot for about 10 minutes and nothing. I have a spare the last hour of the day so I left and drove around town and sure enough it started not even 5 minutes from leaving so I drove back and tomorrow we'll be pulling the valve cover.
How long have you had the Fiero, and how regular have the oil changes been? You might have a sticking lifter. Possibly you could luck out by cleaning it enough with an engine flush. (Get some other advice on this as well, but I'd drain two quarts of oil out, add two quarts of ATF, go through one tankful of gas, and then do a regular oil change.) And if that doesn't work, then you're going to have to pull a lot of stuff to get the offending lifter out of there.
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Originally posted by Dylpro:
Question, I thought I read somewhere saying that removing the valve cover isn't possible without removing the upper plenum. Is this true? Just so I know going into tomorrow.
You may not need to pull the valve covers (if you do the ATF engine flush and it works)... but if the valve covers do require removal, here's a thread written just for you.
Patrick, I was thinking stuck gummy lifter also. The ATF is a great way to clean except put a new oil filter in and maybe even another right before the oil is changed out.
Change the second filter after 50 or so miles. I personally wouldn't run through a whole tank but maybe a total of 75 miles and I might only replace oil with one ATF quart..
On extremely gummed up old nasty engines I have had great success with a quart of diesel for 1/2 hour then new filter oil+diesel then repeat until motor smooth and oil comes out clean. But you must drive the car back and forth to slosh the pan around too. You car doesn't probably need this extreme. More for engines that you had nothing to lose anyway and using Diesel has been somewhat controversial.
Patrick, I was thinking stuck gummy lifter also. The ATF is a great way to clean except put a new oil filter in and maybe even another right before the oil is changed out.
Change the second filter after 50 or so miles. I personally wouldn't run through a whole tank but maybe a total of 75 miles and I might only replace oil with one ATF quart.
Yeah, I knew that other people would have their own "version" of this process. I've only done it once myself, and that was on my first car more than 40 years ago... so I sort of forget the finer details.
Checking oil/fluids in an old car at least once a week is important. I would nag my daughters when they were home that they needed to check it. " A quart of oil is cheaper than an engine" I would constantly tell them. Boy do I know that. Dad learned from the school of hard knocks. Just a young teenager that put it off and it cost me. LOL
Its hard to find the source of the ticking or knocking noise sometime and its even harder to tell it from the desk (learned it myself). Had also an Issue and ended up with this.
A tight piston pin.
[This message has been edited by Torch-Red87 (edited 12-16-2015).]
So here's where we are after today; -We decided against the ATF method just because we thought it would be better to check and make sure there's or broken piece and because we have the tools to do so, plus I think it's worth the experience of being able to learn how to disassemble and reassemble things on my Fiero for the future when I don't have full access to a shop and a teacher with know how. -We haven't gotten the upper plenum off yet as we ran into a few obstacles. Having never done this before my teacher suggested removing the throttle body but after some searching I found a pretty good write up and it said that you can leave the throttle body attached, I found the torx screws connecting the plenum and the TB and removed them. -I removed the hose on the right side of the plenum, are there any others I need to remove? -BIGGEST ISSUE: Trying to remove the EGR tube. Have not been able to find the best way to remove the tube connected to the plenum yet. Any suggestions? -All of the 10mm 12 point screws and 8mm 12 points have been undone. Also unbolted the bracket on the back.
Any advice moving forward? Once the upper plenum has been removed I will attempt removing the valve cover and avoid removing the middle intake. Any extra tips outside of that thread Patrick? I read through it and saw that someone said it could be done without removing the upper plenum but I couldn't find a way. Not to mention I was wanting to refinish the upper plenum anyways. Thanks again everyone. I'm heading in tomorrow morning to work on it, during finals we have our hours broken up into days and I have a free hour so I can work on the car tomorrow morning 7:30-9:10 and hope to get some good work done as it will likely be the last I can do until after Christmas break, into January.
Hello again! Here's an update on what's been going on and looking for some guidance moving forward.
After disassembling the intake and removing the valve cover, we did not see any apparent problems. The ticking would typically occur after the car had warmed up. The only thing that was out of the ordinary seem that one of the valve did not go down as much as the others. However, noting, we've at this time only checked the front facing valve. We do have the valve cover off of the back, just haven't had time to look yet, so it's still likely something may be wrong back there.
Let's assume there's not. Because my valve covers and intake looked pretty bad, I've decided to paint them. In the process of removing the intake I broke about every little plastic vacuum line so I've decided to replace them with the Fiero Store steel replacements. We did a compression test and read between 125-150 across the board. All spark plugs looked almost new, but with how hard it is to get to those rear ones, I've decided it better to just replace them. I'll be reassembling the intake and valve covers sometime next week. After this if the problem returns I'll try the ATF method and hope for results.
That is all assuming nothing is wrong with the back valves which I'll be checking sometime next week. On a side note, while removing the valve covers I lost 2 or 3 of the screws for them. Does any one have the specifications of those screws or where I could buy some new ones? I couldn't find them on the Fiero store but may not have been looking under the right words.
Finally, very happy with the paint! Just going back to factory style and the aluminum paint colour I got looks just like brushed aluminum. Painting the red now, which is a little deeper than the original, but I think it'll still look pretty good, and no matter what, much better than what it did look like.
Hoping after reassembling we won't have a problem, but without really fixing anything, I'm worried there will be. It seems to have started after the car would warm up so no way to really check now while the car can't be run to warm it up. Will try the ATF method next though should the problem return.
LASTLY! And maybe my most important question left! While I have everything diassembled and am buying new parts and pieces, is there anything I should replace that will be easier to get to right now while I'm at it? I've got spark plugs and vacuum lines so far. I'll do PCV valve as well, anything else you guys would suggest? Thanks again for the hep so far everyone!
The only thing that was out of the ordinary seem that one of the valve did not go down as much as the others.
You could have a loose rocker, a bent push rod, a collapsed/sticking lifter and/or a worn cam lobe.
Look at the adjustment nut for that rocker. Does it look like it's tightened down as much as the others, or does it perhaps look like it's backed off? (Don't just tighten it down, it needs to be adjusted properly.) And maybe check to see if the push rod for that rocker wobbles when it's spun.
Worse case scenario... if it turns out that one (or more) of the cam lobes are wiped, put down your wrenches and weigh your options. Fixing this engine might be a waste of time and money.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-22-2016).]
Sorry! Things have been moving very slowly. I'm finish up painting the upper plenum. We ordered the gaskets and will be reassembling the engine. I'll be ordering the CNC vacuum lines from the Fiero Store today. My teacher is certain its a stuck lifter and that the engine is still in operable condition and he wants to try the ATF method as soon as we get it back together and seeing if the problem still persists following that. The gaskets did come yesterday, gaskets for everything for 22.63 after the schools instructor discount from Auto Zone. Finishing up painting the upper plenum but can probably start putting on the valve covers.
ALSO! Urgent, I lost about 3 screws for the valve covers. Anyone know what size they are or a place to get a replacement?
The only thing I can think of as far as our bolts would be to go to a GM dealership and have them look them up for part numbers or size and specs then go from there.
per the parts book, SPL M6.0x1x25. Should be available at any Ace, True Value hardware store or AutoZone, Advance Auto or any parts store.
If I remember correctly, these bolts have an unthreaded area/shoulder that prevents the bolts from being tightened too far and distorting the valve cover gaskets. Bolts from a hardware store may have the correct thread and length, but not have this additional feature.
If I remember correctly, these bolts have an unthreaded area/shoulder that prevents the bolts from being tightened too far and distorting the valve cover gaskets. Bolts from a hardware store may have the correct thread and length, but not have this additional feature.
a good point, sure try the hardware store bolts but I would make dam sure they are the exact same bolt shoulder length. As anyone who has ever tightened down an old style tin valve cover will tell you, never over tighten valve cover bolts, you will turn into a tin knocker real fast, and not like it.
Slow moving still. The vacuum lines were on back order so they're another 1-2 weeks out. Was getting prepped to put everything back together and forgot I'd removed the grommets on the valve covers so I ordered those and a new PCV valve today and should hopefully be here by Wednesday. In the mean time I've been polishing the intake and valve covers. I originally painted them aluminum but the paint peeled badly so I polished them with sand paper, one turned out pretty damn good, the other looks awful. Fortunately the bad one is the one in the back that won't be seen unless someone takes it back apart. The intake I painted red which looks fantastic. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated after things get put back together.
Hello again. Back at it here, everything is back on with the exception of the upper plenum. Having some problems with the vacuum lines fitting nicely. They're certainly not flush and easily neat like the originals. Is there a certain order I should install them in? Also the line going from the trunk wall to the TB is giving me trouble with fitting the upper plenum back on. Does this line go into the port nearest to the trunk or the cabin?
Lots of help is available from some really experienced owners. .jpg)
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Melanie used to do that, turn the radio up. I yelled at her about it, tell me as soon as you hear anything new.
What have you discovered?
