Maybe I should mention that when I txted the guy, I didn't just bash him. I wished him luck on his sell, because if he can get around that price range, the market of the Fiero rises. And in turn, that benefits all of us.
quote
Originally posted by dobey:
No. That's not how markets work. One person asking way too much for their car doesn't change the general value of all cars of the same model.
Actually, you're both right.
Someone has to set a precedence. This is what drives up a market. Does anybody really think someone woke up one morning and found that Duesenbergs were suddenly million dollar cars?
Someone starts and others have to follow. That's what drives up markets.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 12-06-2015).]
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT: Actually, you're both right.
Someone has to set a precedence. This is what drives up a market. Does anybody really think someone woke up one morning and found that Duesenbergs were suddenly million dollar cars?
Someone starts and others have to follow. That's what drives up markets.
It's not just precedence. One guying selling a car for way too much doesn't set precedence for value. You also need demand, lack of supply, and willing sellers at increasingly higher prices. The Fiero has no demand. Yes, there are those of us who love the cars, and ownership will occasionally shift hands, but there is very little demand for the cars, and even less at higher prices. Then, as far as supply goes, there are very few quality Fieros being sold, but there are a lot of daily drivers, beaters, and projects cars on the market. Of the high quality Fieros still in the world, there are very few owners who would sell their cars, as most of them would still be losing money, even if they sold the car for $20K, because quality paint, an LS3 swap, bodywork, etc… all add up.
If the car posted in the CL ad this thread was started for is worth $9500, then my car must be worth $20K, even as it sits right now in a state of partial disassembly, because mine is all original, and this car obviously is not.
As for examples like the Duesenberg or a Ferrari 250 GTO, you just can't compare. They are much rarer vehicles, and yes, some ultra rich white guy probably saw a nice example being driven and haggled with some guy until he sold it for a million dollars, and then the other 3 left in the world were also now worth as much, or more. But almost any GM or Ford vehicle going for that much would be just ludicrous. There is just no reasonable comparison to make between a Fiero and multi-million dollar valued collector cars like old Ferraris.
But almost any GM or Ford vehicle going for that much would be just ludicrous. There is just no reasonable comparison to make between a Fiero and multi-million dollar valued collector cars like old Ferraris.
Well, to start of with. I never mentioned that him selling his car for 9K would cause every Fiero to EXPLODE in value. No, but if you lived in Colorado you'd get to see how the prices of Fieros are on the rise. The asking price is one thing, but when you constantly see Fieros come and go, a 'set price' gets higher. I do agree, that the Fiero market doesn't have a lot of demand. But the fox body mustangs didn't either, until recently.
As for the statement quoted above. A Ford GT40 or an Shelby Cobra will go for that much, depending on the year/history behind it. Even GT500s have gone for that much as long as they are original.
Originally posted by zzzhuh: Well, to start of with. I never mentioned that him selling his car for 9K would cause every Fiero to EXPLODE in value. No, but if you lived in Colorado you'd get to see how the prices of Fieros are on the rise. The asking price is one thing, but when you constantly see Fieros come and go, a 'set price' gets higher. I do agree, that the Fiero market doesn't have a lot of demand. But the fox body mustangs didn't either, until recently.
As for the statement quoted above. A Ford GT40 or an Shelby Cobra will go for that much, depending on the year/history behind it. Even GT500s have gone for that much as long as they are original.
Still, there aren't few enough Fieros left, nor the demand, to cause any significant alteration in value. Oil prices also have an effect here. With oil so low (I just filled up my truck for $1.83/gal), more people are buying cars that consume more fuel, and older cars. So in your area more people might be buying/selling Fieros for rising prices, but it doesn't necessarily mean the values are up for everyone either.
As for the GT40, the record sale there is only $11 million. It's pretty high for a US car, but an original GT40 is a very rare car. It's also nowhere near the $38 million the Ferrari 250 GTO last sold for. The original Cobra that sold for $5.5 million is also the only one in the world, and was Shelby's personal car. There will occasionally be a few exceptional cases like this for GM/Ford/Chrysler cars, but they are unlikely to come anywhere close to matching the values of the ultra-rare European exotics.
Anyway, I was just making the point, because every time one of these crazily priced cars comes up on this forum, there are those who chime in with the "I hope it sells at that price, so my car will be more valuable" comments. But that is not how car values work.
I do agree, that the Fiero market doesn't have a lot of demand. But the fox body mustangs didn't either, until recently.
Here is another scenario......
The 1974 to 1981 Trans Am prices were mediocre at best. They made about a 1/2 million of them and for years $4500.00 bought you a super nice low miler.
Now people want $15,000.00 for some doped up POS '79 that is far from original.
Every dog has its day and with the uniqueness of the Fiero as well as the low production numbers, nice original examples days is soon to come.
I've thought about selling my black '88 GT a few times, I've even turned down some real respectable offers. My decision came down to simple mathematics. What can I buy to fill that spot in my shop and what will it cost me? $25,000.00 to $50,000.00 for a Trans Am or GTO of similar condition?
My '88 GT is staying right where it is.
As far as the value of a "modified" Fiero goes.....
Face it! These are not '32 Fords. Very few cars are worth as much or more modified as they are bone stock original. A good example of an original Fiero will always trump a modified one. That is unless it's a base model that was modified. But then, it will still be a losing proposition.
Those that think otherwise are obviously trying to convince that person in the mirror.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 12-06-2015).]
As far as the value of a "modified" Fiero goes.....
Very few cars are worth as much or more modified as they are bone stock original. A good example of an original Fiero will always trump a modified one.
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I couldn't care less if I've reduced the value of my Formula by modifying it. I won't be relying on the proceeds from selling my Fieros for anything critical. I want to enjoy the cars I have while I own them, and feeling the need to keep them "bone stock original" is not my idea of fun.
Purists may hate me, but it's not like any of the cars I've ever owned were one of a kind.
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I couldn't care less if I've reduced the value of my Formula by modifying it. I won't be relying on the proceeds from selling my Fieros for anything critical. I want to enjoy the cars I have while I own them, and feeling the need to keep them "bone stock original" is not my idea of fun.
Purists may hate me, but it's not like any of the cars I've ever owned were one of a kind.
I can sorta relate.
When I first bought my '65 GTO waaaaaaaaaaaay back when, I use to race it and beat the hell out of it.
Then the cars became valuable and the car was put back to original. That was the end of all the fun and the reason why I had the car. Back in 2006 I sold the car after owning it for 35 years because it just wasn't fun anymore.
I took some of the money from the sale and bought my '67 Nova Wagon that will never be original again. I've been racing it and having fun again.
This doesn't mean I have a double standard about cars, their originality and their value. It just means you can have that cake and eat it too, you just have to own more than 1 car.
B.T.W.: Selling my '65 GTO collection (yes, I sold a collection) was and still is like a death in the family.
Let's all come back down to earth. While Fieros are for sale all over North America, the prices range from rediculous to very cheap. The ones at high prices sell if they are highly customized, "one of a kind" or low mileage cars of significant historical value. As one who has sold many Fieros, I have nearly always lost money. The demand for this car is just not there. Yellowstone just sold his beautiful modified Fiero and got a high price for it, but he still lost money. Old beat up Fieros sell on the cheap, but by the time you get all the little things fixed you are in for several thousand. At that point, if you sell you lose.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Let's all come back down to earth. While Fieros are for sale all over North America, the prices range from rediculous to very cheap. The ones at high prices sell if they are highly customized, "one of a kind" or low mileage cars of significant historical value. As one who has sold many Fieros, I have nearly always lost money. The demand for this car is just not there. Yellowstone just sold his beautiful modified Fiero and got a high price for it, but he still lost money. Old beat up Fieros sell on the cheap, but by the time you get all the little things fixed you are in for several thousand. At that point, if you sell you lose.
Dennis, I really don't have the time to comment on this at the moment but I will later or in the coming days.
However I do have one question for you that only requires a simple yes or no answer. Are you a licensed independent motor vehicle, collector or custom car dealer?
Interesting discussion. I don't think anyone should expect to make money on these cars, but I will say after shopping for an 88 Formula for a few months, it seems like the prices of that specific car is climbing a little bit. A couple years ago I'd say that equivalent cars were probably a good 15-20% cheaper than the prices I've seen over the past few months.
Thankfully I'm done looking for a car, now just waiting for delivery. But now onto that other money sucker... PARTS!
Fieros have been in my family for decades. I personally didn't own one myself until I recently purchased one for my 16 year old. Until I started driving his from time-to-time I had forgotten how fun they are to drive. My brothers (who have both owned several Fieros) have been trying to get me to buy one and "join the club" for years. With that said, I have been looking at the prices for these cars for many years, as well. I can honestly say that from what I've seen the demand and value has both gone up a lot over the past 5 years or so. I almost fell to the pressure of my brothers a few years back, and at the time you could get an average to below average mileage Fiero in great shape for $4-6K. I have been looking for a steal of a deal since I purchased my kid's Fiero, and the same average to below average mileage great condition Fiero is going for $8-12K.
I think the demand is going up because most of us middle-aged people that couldn't afford one back in the day can do so now. No?
I have people stop and talk to me about my kid's Fiero all the time. Most of them ask me if I know where they can find one for sale in the local area. Does this type of thing happen with many of you?
It's time to cull the herd.
