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Is this a bad crankshaft seal? by Scooter_86gt
Started on: 09-11-2015 05:40 PM
Replies: 11 (438 views)
Last post by: Scooter_86gt on 09-12-2015 10:58 AM
Scooter_86gt
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Report this Post09-11-2015 05:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 1986 3.4 5 speed GT. I have a had a leak for a while. I thought it was a thermostat housing gasket leak because the residue on the ground was thin and I only saw a little when I parked. It has became much thicker and I realized it was an oil leak all along. I use liquid-moly oil (I love that sutff) which has a thin look to it so I mistook it for dirty coolant.

Anyway I cleaned as much as I could to see if it was a timing chain cover leak but I could not tell for sure though it did reveal the oil slinging onto the freshly cleaned AC comp and DR tensioner thus making me realize it was a driving leak with the HB slinging the oil out and not a sitting gravity leak plus my oil is down to the add mark.

Much of the high up oil residue on the motor is from a valve cover leak I fixed.

I have read on other posts that sometimes the keyhole will allow oil to pass by if it is not sealed with a bit of RTV but this seems to be more than that?

Am I correct in that the seal is bad? I took pics before I cleaned it up to see if might leaking somewhere else and to really check the water pump seal and timing chain cover.

Close up of seal: (click on icon, it is a tall skinny pic)
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Seal and surrounding build up:


Drip off HB and overall residue


Close up of oil drip off HB


Sling on to components:




Also:
If I need to change the seal it would need to be a 3.4 seal not a Fiero 2.8?

[This message has been edited by Scooter_86gt (edited 09-11-2015).]

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dobey
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Report this Post09-11-2015 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you notice this when changing the clutch? That looks pretty bad to me, yes. And I'm sure it didn't help your clutch any either.
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Scooter_86gt
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Report this Post09-11-2015 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I saw it on the garage floor previously or for the past couple months. Just a couple nickle size or smaller drops. I drove to vegas and back and it got worse.

Apparently the majority was getting flung off while driving and when it sat the residual oil worked its way down by gravity.

It did not or has not effected the AC clutch. I recently changed both belts as they were due. It really has not caused any problems other than a mess.
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Scooter_86gt
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Report this Post09-11-2015 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update: 9-11-15

I read a bit more and went back to look at the HB. I found a groove on the shaft. Could this be why it leaked?

[This message has been edited by Scooter_86gt (edited 09-11-2015).]

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Report this Post09-11-2015 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scooter_86gt:

I saw it on the garage floor previously or for the past couple months. Just a couple nickle size or smaller drops. I drove to vegas and back and it got worse.

Apparently the majority was getting flung off while driving and when it sat the residual oil worked its way down by gravity.

It did not or has not effected the AC clutch. I recently changed both belts as they were due. It really has not caused any problems other than a mess.


I was talking about the transmission clutch, not the A/C clutch. When the rear main seal leaks, the oil being flung around can get onto the flywheel or clutch disk, causing it to fail sooner than it is designed to.

As far as 2.8 vs 3.4, I don't recall if they use the same seal part # or not. You'll want to tell the guy at the parts counter it's a Camaro with the 3.4 though, to make sure you get the right part.

EDIT: Oh, I was confused for a minute and thought you had the rear main seal leaking too. Yeah, the front obviously won't cause any problem with the trans. Yes, if a groove managed to get ground into the metal on the balancer that contacts the seal, it could cause leaking.

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 09-11-2015).]

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Scooter_86gt
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Report this Post09-11-2015 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry I didn't understand. No clutch issues at all.

Thanks for the input on the seal. I was figuring I would have to get a 3.4 seal as I would think it would be slightly bigger.
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Report this Post09-11-2015 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scooter_86gt:

Sorry I didn't understand. No clutch issues at all.

Thanks for the input on the seal. I was figuring I would have to get a 3.4 seal as I would think it would be slightly bigger.


The diameter of the crank snout, and balancer hub are the same on both engines, AFAIK.
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Scooter_86gt
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Report this Post09-11-2015 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh cool! Thanks!!

Now I guess I need to get a sleeve for the HB?

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Report this Post09-11-2015 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scooter_86gt:

Oh cool! Thanks!!

Now I guess I need to get a sleeve for the HB?


I don't think you can replace just that part of the balancer. If there's a groove ground into the hub, you'll probably need a new balancer.
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Report this Post09-12-2015 12:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I checked on line and there are repair sleeves for fiero HB. I will keep researching to make sure it is something that can be done. It seems to be a common repair on other vehicles?

It can never just be a seal....it just has to go to the next level??....LOL....
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Report this Post09-12-2015 04:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just get a new HB and replace the crankshaft seal on the timing cover. cheap fixes.

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Scooter_86gt
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Report this Post09-12-2015 10:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Scooter_86gtSend a Private Message to Scooter_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree totally....but.... I do freelance work and the slow season is coming for me so a new HB is tough to justify when the present one is still good less the groove. I know new HBs are very reasonable but every dollar I save now helps me later.

If the PO was truthful it only has around 80k to 90k (with what I put on it) as it was changed when the 3.4 conversion was put in the car by the Fiero factory in the late 90s. The motor is super strong for a 90s swap no smoke etc.

I am gonna get a new seal and the sleeve and all should be good. I have read mulitple other car forums and it seems this is a fairly common repair. Many machinist recommend it as an economical choice. It is not unlike a sleeve in a motor cylinder just in reverse. It is funny though as they all have threads discussing the merit of it as opposed to just getting a new HB etc.

Again though I very much agree new over old, re-manufactured or repaired but I am uber strapped for cash. When I do get more work I can get a new HB and have it on stand by for the future

I am gonna take lots of pics and do a thread on the sleeve repair and this overall so there is some info on it.

Thank you for the input!!
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