The Forum is definitely in a death spiral when the moderator is uninterested in updating the banner for two years.
I certainly hope not, I for one would severely miss this place and all the help and support I have received over the years. There's no way to measure Cliff's contribution to the Fiero community.
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
I offered to buy the forum a while back because I wanted the fiero.com domain name ..... he replied not for sale ... so I guess he still has interest but has not the time to do updates...
The Forum is definitely in a death spiral when the moderator is uninterested in updating the banner for two years.
Oh brother...
The banner was updated to say "15" years at the beginning of 2014 but I accidentally replaced it with an older version somewhere during the year. If you paid attention, you would have noticed that the Christmas banner, the New Year's banner, the Halloween banner and all other banners I create every year (wow - an uninterested moderator who creates new banners for a bunch of occasions every single year - who would have thought) did say "15 years".
The reason I haven't updated it to 16 years yet is because I haven't come around to it (for some reason, it's not high on my priority list). But hey, if it means so much to you, and if apparently that's the only thing you notice that I do (or don't do) around here, I would gladly change it to 16 years right away for you.
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: All because it says "14" instead of "16".
We see more than that neglected. Don't get me wrong, it's your site, do what you want with it but if you're interested in keeping it going, the path it's on now is not going well.
I am pretty new here, but to suggest that this forum is in a death spiral or in any way neglected is insane. You guys should be thrilled the site is up 24x7x365 and/or that Cliff isn't trying to monetize every aspect of it. The number of forums for orphan cars that have literally vaporized over the years or been turned into a banner/inline/popup ad festival to try and earn some money is unreal. This place is amazing, all day every day.
Wow!!! I visit the forum every single day! And I can assure you that Cliff change the banner for every single season of the year!!! Some of us aren't paying attention!! Or just paying an occasional visit...
I'm sure "hears" in the song could be replaced with "sees"
Line from Simon and Garfunkel song "The Boxer"......
"Still, a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest."
When we did a title search for our house, back in 81' or so, it came back with "old" in the space for "Year Built/Age of Home" Guess after a certain point, pin point accuracy just isn't that "critical"?
To be honest, I really never noticed it said 14 years, and not 16 years, guess I was too pre-occupied with the content to notice?
Thanks go out to Cliff Pennock for creating this place and keeping it maintained as one of the best forums on the planet.....for 14 years....er....16 years......for as long as it's been here!
The depth and breadth of information and knowledge contained within this forum is invaluable. It would be a huge loss to the Fiero community if it ever went away. I've done a lot of research over the years for my many projects and more than a few times I've clicked on links in old threads (on other forums) only to find the the forum no longer exists, and this one has been around for 16 years, I think that is something to be proud of. I'm on here quite a bit and haven't seen anything that would indicate to me that Cliff is asleep at the wheel. I remember the banner discussion last year and didn't even notice that it had reverted back to "14 years". With all of the different holiday banners, he's obviously working on things. I have no complaints about things here and hope it continues for years to come. IMO, people leave here because of personality disputes with other members. It's not Cliff's job to referee fights, we're all supposed to be adults here and people should know how to behave themselves without Cliff needing to stick a bar of soap in anyone's mouth.
[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 04-28-2015).]
Great... I hope to see 17, 18, 19, 20, etc in the coming years.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
The reason I haven't updated it to 16 years yet is because I haven't come around to it (for some reason, it's not high on my priority list).
Those of us who appreciate this forum know that you DO put a lot of work into it. That's what makes it all that much more odd that a seemingly simple task hadn't been done yet almost five months into the current year.
Others might have more of a beef (I dunno), but that's all that was behind my earlier comment.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I don't quite understand the reasoning behind not updating the banner either. <shrug>
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-28-2015).]
The banner was updated to say "15" years at the beginning of 2014 but I accidentally replaced it with an older version somewhere during the year. If you paid attention, you would have noticed that the Christmas banner, the New Year's banner, the Halloween banner and all other banners I create every year (wow - an uninterested moderator who creates new banners for a bunch of occasions every single year - who would have thought) did say "15 years".
The reason I haven't updated it to 16 years yet is because I haven't come around to it (for some reason, it's not high on my priority list). But hey, if it means so much to you, and if apparently that's the only thing you notice that I do (or don't do) around here, I would gladly change it to 16 years right away for you.
Sorry if I touched a nerve. Nothing personal, but forum traffic is waaaay down from 16 years ago. The banner was just the icing on the cake to make me say that.
The Texas Round up held last weekend generated ZERO pictures or posts afterwards until I berated those guys. They said all the pictures were on Twitter, why bother posting them here? I've been here since 2001 and loved every minute of it and would give you a kidney if you needed it. But from the user's perspective the forum feels like it's in a death spiral. Sorry, but that is how it seems to me.
Wow some people have nothing better to do than complain about a banner? Then chastise the owner of the site? Wow. I wished I had the free time. My old car has WAY to much to be done to it.(Bad grammar I know) Plus the honey do list, plus maintaining the house and yard, working long hours, keeping in contact with my elderly mother, trying to visit the grandkids, trying to find time to ride my bicycle..... trying to find time to do Fiero Events.....hoping to find time to go to some races ... maybe find time to work as a corner worker...... list just keeps going on. LOL
Cliff I feel your pain!
Thank you for all you do! Because of you the hobby is still alive.
Steve Old Guy with Sports Car
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 04-29-2015).]
My only reason for mentioning it is that Cliff is usually right up there updating the banner each season and year and I thought it was unusual that it was so out of date. I think that Cliff does an excellent job of running this site and I for one appreciate all the time and effort, not to mention money, that he puts in doing that. If I'd have known it would kick off such a storm I would not have even mentioned it so I'll just keep shtum from now on.
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
Those of us who appreciate this forum know that you DO put a lot of work into it. That's what makes it all that much more odd that a seemingly simple task hadn't been done yet almost five months into the current year.
It's not a bug in the software and it's not an "in your face" nuisance either. So I simply keep forgetting about it.
I spend a lot of time each single day to keep the forum up and running as cleanly as it is.
PFF gets about 500 spam sign-ups a day. Most of them are automatically blocked by my spam detection software but a small percentage does not. That's why activating a registration is still a manual job and I go through each and every single sign-up manually. Checking ip addresses, check if anything about the sign-up might hint it's actually a spammer. Then when I'm 100% sure it's not, I activate the account. This has worked almost flawlessly. Since 1999, only three spammers ever got through. The last a few months ago. Which causes me to have to clean up after them (deleting the spam threads created, deleting spam posts from threads, etc). Most of the time, people don't even notice the spammer has been here.
I also get tons of private messages. People asking me to close threads, clean up threads, change titles, asking for help finding threads, etc. Most of the time I don't even have time to answer those PM's but will of course do what is requested.
I also get tons of PM's from members asking "hey, member X is always pissing in my thread, you need to do something about it!". Most of the time this also means I get a PM from member X saying "hey, member Y is always complaining I'm pissing in his thread while all I do is stating facts, you need to do something about it!". This usually means I have to read through threads that are numerous pages long usually only to find out it's just another ordinary pissing match between two members. And as most of those people are adults (even though you wouldn't say it reading their messages), I usually let them handle it themselves.
Then there's of course making sure the server itselfs keeps running. Updating software, hardware, making backups. Even warding off cyber attacks.
I also constantly add small new features. Or optimize code. Most people don't notice them but it helps keeping the forum fast and responsive, even for a server all the way in Europe.
Then there's administering the facebook page. That takes some time too.
I could go on and on really.
So yeah, changing a number in a banner is something that usually slips my attention. And mediating in a pissing match isn't high on my priority list either. But hey, feel free to think I'm uninterested. Or that the forum is in a death spiral.
Let me tell you a little secret. PFF has lost about 25% of it's traffic in the last 5 year. If you think that's a lot, think again. That's about the lowest number you will find for internet forums. Most forums are dead or have lost so much of their traffic - all thanks to Social Media - that they have become ghost towns. The fact that PFF is still so active is a sign it's actually still very healthy.
Originally posted by jscott1: The Texas Round up held last weekend generated ZERO pictures or posts afterwards until I berated those guys. They said all the pictures were on Twitter, why bother posting them here?
Twitter, Facebook, they have stolen traffic sure. I was looking at a thread from a show from a few years ago recently and there was a link posted by a member to his facebook page of a bunch of pics, I clicked the link and it was dead. A Facebook fail.
Cliff the forum is well maintained, don't let anyone tell you differently! I know for a fact how hard it is to keep a system up and running for a long period of time, and to do so so that it appears that there is absolutely no interruptions is an amazing feat! Thanks for keeping it up! I am appreciative of it. If others don't like it they can take the train....sorry couldn't help it. Lol
Let me tell you a little secret. PFF has lost about 25% of it's traffic in the last 5 year. If you think that's a lot, think again. That's about the lowest number you will find for internet forums. Most forums are dead or have lost so much of their traffic - all thanks to Social Media - that they have become ghost towns. The fact that PFF is still so active is a sign it's actually still very healthy.
I'm on the 300M forum as well and traffic there is really slow, sometimes threads go for weeks or months without a post. And if you want full access to the entire site you need to pay a subscription fee.
Cliff the forum is well maintained, don't let anyone tell you differently! I know for a fact how hard it is to keep a system up and running for a long period of time, and to do so so that it appears that there is absolutely no interruptions is an amazing feat! Thanks for keeping it up! I am appreciative of it. If others don't like it they can take the train....sorry couldn't help it. Lol
Shelby
but still interested in buying the dot com name Cliff regards Danyel
but still interested in buying the dot com name Cliff regards Danyel
I don't see why he would want to sell it to you? He's got a perfect reason for keeping it and has the best Fiero page around, it would be bad for traffic to sell it off + he waited so many years to pick it up from the previous owner.
I'm on a lot of forums for various car models, although traffic has gone down on all forums because of facebook this page is surprisingly one of the strongest I still visit. Several other clubs had their forums die because of facebook. I cannot stand facebook pages and tend to stay away from them.
I think Cliff has done a great job, every forum has things that could be better...
[This message has been edited by FieroMontreal (edited 04-30-2015).]
Thanks cliff, would have pushed my fiero into the river a few years ago before i discovered pff, now with all the input, mods, diy's, and info, its the envy of the neighborhood.
I'm on a lot of forums for various car models, although traffic has gone down on all forums because of facebook this page is surprisingly one of the strongest I still visit. Several other clubs had their forums die because of facebook. I cannot stand facebook pages and tend to stay away from them.
I think Cliff has done a great job, every forum has things that could be better...
Cliff has done a great job and I love this forum to death. No disrespect was intended, but from a long time visitor here traffic is waaaay down. I ask why is that? Yeah, facebook, instagram and twitter, but why are those folks over there and not here anymore? One word... Cellphones. The vast majority of folks access the internet on cellphones and this forum (like most forums) is not cellphone friendly.
I would hate to see the archives disappear as they information there is invaluable, but it would also be nice if we had a friendlier platform for real-time communications. Very often I just wish we had a "LIKE" button.
This forum isn't social media. I don't really care about the year up top, the colors currently used, tor much else on here. 16 years says a LOT. It does take a lot to keep a forum with this volume up and running. Usually, the better it runs, the more thankless it is.
I have no interest in facebook, twatter, or whatever else.
I hadn't even noticed that the year changed, until it was mentioned. I figured 14 was here to stay. I appreciate most of the holidy theming, except the one for I think Halloween. Whichever one that made the site difficult for me to use. Anyway, the pirate mods are cool, too.
If you want more traffic, participate more. If you want more pics, post them. Well, there is that small thing I'd like to see be improved.
I do wonder what happens if/when Cliff takes vacation. Cliff seems fairly active on this forum. If you don't think so from just this thread, browse around a bit. Then there's the cleanups. Pages of posts that just vanish. There was one just a few days ago. Of course, if he's making visual changes--however mundane--that's time away from fixing other things.
I'm a new member here, and yes, I'd like to see more activity.
I had a thought. I don't have time to read all the current posting activity, much less run the site, and this is not his full-time job, IIRC.
Thanks cliff, would have pushed my fiero into the river a few years ago before i discovered pff, now with all the input, mods, diy's, and info, its the envy of the neighborhood.
Originally posted by jscott1: One word... Cellphones. The vast majority of folks access the internet on cellphones and this forum (like most forums) is not cellphone friendly.
I would hate to see the archives disappear as they information there is invaluable, but it would also be nice if we had a friendlier platform for real-time communications.
This I think is true too. Probably take some crazy amount of coding I suppose to make PFF work on phones.
quote
Originally posted by tshark:
If you want more traffic, participate more. If you want more pics, post them.
Agreeed!
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-01-2015).]
but still interested in buying the dot com name Cliff 
