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Love those spark plugs! by wayneman
Started on: 11-30-2014 04:08 PM
Replies: 26 (1156 views)
Last post by: hyperv6 on 12-03-2014 08:39 PM
wayneman
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Report this Post11-30-2014 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can now say I am no longer a spark plug virgin. Got them out and re-gapped and back in in about an hour. Since the MSD coil and cap upgrade the idle got better but never liked the throttle response. The GT just didn't feel as good as my Formula did way back in 88. I did some looking on this forum for plug gap advise. Found one from 2008 that was quite funny. Some of you may remember the "Blow into the hose to clear away debris like you are trying to make a gay man proud". LOL I love that advise.
Anyway, changed the gap from .045 to .055 and it made big difference. No more low RPM lag and much better acceleration, and she idles smoother at a steady 900 RPMs.

Anyone who has never changed plugs should be sure to wear gloves and have a swivel plug socket. Oh, and no one mentioned that the wires are almost as hard to remove as the plugs themselves.
Lucky for me the car is low miles and has been garage kept so the plugs broke free pretty easy.

This is such a great forum! I will not do anything to my car without researching here first. Saves a lot of time and money.

Next stop headliner replacement!!
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wayneman
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Report this Post11-30-2014 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess from the lack of responses you all think this is a minor accomplishment, to which I agree. However; I am not an auto mechanic. This is all new stuff to me. I got a fiero because I had them in the past and I wanted something I could work on and learn myself. I hope to meet some local fiero owners some day so I can learn even more. Thanks for reading!
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Report this Post11-30-2014 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FieroGT TTopsClick Here to Email 88FieroGT TTopsSend a Private Message to 88FieroGT TTopsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
are you still garage keeping it? Once the car stays outside-and it rains, the plugs on the firewall side will rust in. Also did you coat your threads---will help on getting them out. Did you have to remove your decklid or tilt the engine---luckily you got off easy!

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Report this Post11-30-2014 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wayneman:

I guess from the lack of responses you all think this is a minor accomplishment, ...


It was only 2 hours between your posts.
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wayneman
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Report this Post11-30-2014 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did not remove deck lid. I guess my arms were long enough. tried standing in trunk but found it just as easy to reach from side. The front plugs were very hard to get the wires off. got cut by heat shield. Mirror was useless unless you have three hands. Just felt my way through.

Was told not to remove deck lid by myself unless I have done it before. Too many dangers of damaging lid.
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wayneman
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Report this Post11-30-2014 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

wayneman

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Stays in my climate controlled shop. My girlfriends home is too close to the ocean and the salt mist is brutal on my work van. And it only has a one car garage….she has dibs!
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-30-2014 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is the deal plugs are not hard if you have the right tool and know how to do it.

I can do mine in about 20 mins front and rear not removing anything but the side cover. The trick is a long handle ratchet with a bend in it and swivel head. It goes in just perfect. Once loose a old plug boot or piece of rubber hose will finish it.

Now on a car not garage kept as yours it can be a major ordeal as plugs get water on them and they will rust into the head. Once rusted it can take a long time to get them loose and in some cases lucky if you even get them out. Many have had to pull a head and remove what is left of the plug.

Also you are dealing with a group that has done everything from installing BMW engines, BBC and untold numbers of Chevy big and small blocks, N star Cadillac's and God knows how many 3800 SC engine. This is not counting the odd Diesel or other odd engine combo someone thought up after a case of beer.

So don't feel slighted if no one answers. We have all been there and many have long gone far beyond.

So if people here don't get excited it is not you it is just nothing new for most here.

Note there are far much worse plugs to change out there too. Some cars today there is no way to get to them unless you tilt an engine on the mounts or go under the car. Hell my old SSEI just to change the SC belt I had to jack up the engine and remove the engine mount just for the belt.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 11-30-2014).]

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Report this Post12-01-2014 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


The trick is a long handle ratchet with a bend in it and swivel head. It goes in just perfect.



A ratchet handle with a bend in it? They make those or did you bend one?
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Report this Post12-01-2014 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post12-01-2014 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:



Interesting, build in a swiveling head and it would be a thing of beauty.
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wayneman
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Report this Post12-01-2014 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Next question: Best spark plugs for 2.8 with the MSD coil and cap? Already have good wires

Thanks
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Report this Post12-01-2014 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most recommended is the factory AC delco plug.
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wayneman
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Report this Post12-01-2014 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great, Thats whats in there now.

Thanks
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Report this Post12-01-2014 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This forum is not as busy as it used to be. While writing this there would be 10 threads going on top. Not anymore. Fiero plugs can be challenging to someone new to the car. But no special tools (not even that bent one) are required. Just regular extensions and a swivel. Small hands work better. Take the lid off and then job is piece of cake but not worth it I guess. Try changing plugs on a 2002 5.4 SC Ford F-150. That is real PITA. As for plugs with or without MSD the best for the 2.8 are plain AC Delco. If you want a better coil then put the big external ACCEL. Not sure if still manufactured. It is great because you can install it far from the heat. Also I think it gives better spark. Still not something you may feel so don't be too optimistic. Good luck.
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Report this Post12-01-2014 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:




Thanks for the post. Mine is the same but it is an old SK model I got in High School and it has been a life saver for many jobs and the Fiero it is a perfect fit.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post12-01-2014 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

This forum is not as busy as it used to be. While writing this there would be 10 threads going on top. Not anymore. Fiero plugs can be challenging to someone new to the car. But no special tools (not even that bent one) are required. Just regular extensions and a swivel. Small hands work better. Take the lid off and then job is piece of cake but not worth it I guess. Try changing plugs on a 2002 5.4 SC Ford F-150. That is real PITA. As for plugs with or without MSD the best for the 2.8 are plain AC Delco. If you want a better coil then put the big external ACCEL. Not sure if still manufactured. It is great because you can install it far from the heat. Also I think it gives better spark. Still not something you may feel so don't be too optimistic. Good luck.


Yes you can do it with even more basic tools but this ratchet is not all that uncommon and very handy for plug changes on any engine. The long handle is great for leverage on tough plugs and the swivel at the top makes it move to where ever you need it to be to move it.

I see it as a deal for not for the most basic tool but the right tool.

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hyperv6
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Report this Post12-01-2014 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by wayneman:

Great, Thats whats in there now.

Thanks


Don't over think it as AC plugs are as good as you need.

The performance plugs like MSD and Accel are not any better or worse than any others and often cost more. Accel does have a shorty plug that is good for tight fit headers and it is worth the extra money.
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wayneman
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Report this Post12-02-2014 05:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks again for the info….My storage unit / shop has a lot of onlookers including homeless person that all think the are mechanics. I was told my Delco plugs would melt with the hotter spark.

Was also told I should get one of those throttle body swirly after market noise makers. LOL I know better.
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Report this Post12-02-2014 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Yes you can do it with even more basic tools but this ratchet is not all that uncommon and very handy for plug changes on any engine. The long handle is great for leverage on tough plugs and the swivel at the top makes it move to where ever you need it to be to move it.

I see it as a deal for not for the most basic tool but the right tool.


Does it swivel around or just pivot? I agree the right tool makes a big difference.
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Report this Post12-02-2014 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Be careful, Wide plug gap can cause problems... Gap affects coil's electric load, etc.

Replacing plugs is easier when:
1. people would use proper torque. plugs seal w/ very low torque. Fiero spark plug torque, both engines: 7-15 ft-lb. source: alldata
Many anti-seize make very easy to over torque. If your using anti-seize and using two hand to tighten new plugs then bet you're using way too much torque. Over torquing make harder to remove later and can even break them when running.
2. Use plugs w/ anti-rust coating. plugs w/o that will rust fast, more so when rain etc gets on the plugs like V6 front plugs or duke. Even worse when missing the lid rubber remove for Recall work or 84 lid w/ air vent in the lid. Many have plugs that rotted the metal so when time to replace, the metal breaks...

My 87 DIS L4 have AUTOLITE Part # APP666 because the plug coating + Double Platinum means don't need to change them and still look new after 3-4 years of use. (HEI doesn't need Double Platinum plugs.) I get them from RA and when have a rebate, end cost ~$2 per plug.

Silver color can still rust... you need to check whatever spec. Example: NGK V-Power - Trivalent Metal Plating has superior anti-corrosion and anti-seizing properties.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

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Report this Post12-02-2014 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

My 87 DIS L4 have AUTOLITE Part # APP666 because the plug coating + Double Platinum means don't need to change them and still look new after 3-4 years of use. (HEI doesn't need Double Platinum plugs.) I get them from RA and when have a rebate, end cost ~$2 per plug.

Silver color can still rust... you need to check whatever spec. Example: NGK V-Power - Trivalent Metal Plating has superior anti-corrosion and anti-seizing properties.



I always read platinum plugs caused issues in Fieros / cars that did not come with platinum?
Also where is a good source to find out and know if a plug has good corrosion resistance?
Thanks
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Report this Post12-03-2014 08:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
I always read platinum plugs caused issues in Fieros / cars that did not come with platinum?
Also where is a good source to find out and know if a plug has good corrosion resistance?
Thanks

HEI and others doesn't care using platinum etc. Even most "performance" plugs will work tho most are junk, like Split Fire and many other snake oil plugs.

DIS hates Some types of plugs, like Bosch Platinum+4 & +2. DIS runs two plugs backward and burn out the center electrode when using them. (See my Cave, DIS Ignition )
Autolite ACDelco and a few others made Double Platinum with GM DIS/DIS2 in mind when they design them. Older Autolite and/or ACDelco marketing said this but now doesn't mention. Likely because GM DIS on old engines is old system and DIS is a generic term use by many car makers. Most DIS types now fires all plugs in the normal way, spark goes out center electrode, even if a coil fires pair of plugs.

(We say DIS but some GM and other docs is called DIS2 system. )

corrosion resistance just read spec at maker's site or contact maker.
example: www.acdelco.com/parts/spark...ofessional-platinum/ says "Designed with a corrosion-resistant shell"

Most basic cheep plugs will rust because don't use anti-rust finishes. While isn't are problem on most cars, Fiero allows rain etc to "attack" the plugs. Even w/ deck lid "drip seal" in place Fiero engine bay is very open to weather vs. most others.
Duke #1 plug can rust out faster because vent over the battery lets allot of water in when driving in the rain.
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Report this Post12-03-2014 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found it easier to change plugs on a 3800 than a 2.8 or 3.4. just saying.

------------------
1986 Fiero GT fastback SC3800 3.4 pulley, LS1 TB
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee with "big boy" 5.9 motor
1983 Honda Goldwing 1100 Interstate

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Report this Post12-03-2014 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ITALGTSend a Private Message to ITALGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just changed plugs in my recently acquired '86 GT.

The previous owner had changed the plugs using standard Delco R42TS's, but I installed NGK UR5 V-Power's not long after I bought it anyway. I changed them mainly for piece of mind, knowing the gap was set correctly and plugs themselves were installed properly. I also wanted to have a look at the plugs to see how the engine had been running, so changing them while I was at it made sense.

Funny thing is, some of the Delco plugs I pulled out had slightly bent electrode tips. They were slightly bent sideways from center; not by much, but definitely noticeable to the eye. I'm not sure if they were bent prior to installation or came that way new in the box, but I'm glad to know the engine now has plugs that I know are good.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, an added bonus of using the NGK's is that they don't rust nearly as bad (if at all) compared to the standard Delco plugs. The Delco plugs I pulled out, although practically brand new and working just fine (perfect color), already had lots of rust/corrosion on the outside bases, especially those on the firewall side.

It just doesn't take long for a standard plug to rust up in a Fiero engine bay. That's the main reason I prefer the NGK's over the standard Delco's.

As far as changing the plugs, the 2.8 is fairly easy compared to lot's of vehicles I've worked on, but that's just my opinion based on personal experience. To a newbie, I can see why it might be a bit of a pain on the firewall side, but even that's easy if you have the right tools and take your time at it. It gets 10X easier once you get done with your first 2.8 spark plug change; don't be scared to get your hands dirty and say a cuss word or two the first time, it all seems to help.

[This message has been edited by ITALGT (edited 12-03-2014).]

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wayneman
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Report this Post12-03-2014 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got most of my cuts and scrapes just getting the dam heat shielded wires off the firewall side. not much room to pull out.
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Report this Post12-03-2014 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ITALGTSend a Private Message to ITALGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wayneman:

I got most of my cuts and scrapes just getting the dam heat shielded wires off the firewall side. not much room to pull out.


Did you lube them up before reinstalling them? If you did, you'll save yourself a headache later if you decide to check or change plugs again. It also helps to ensure the spark plug wire boots get properly seated onto the spark plugs.

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Report this Post12-03-2014 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Does it swivel around or just pivot? I agree the right tool makes a big difference.


I call it swivel but you may call it pivot.

I am not sure you would want a true swivel as there is no need here. With the long handle and pivot you get good leverage and if the plugs are stuck that could prove to be a blessing.

As for platinum plugs they are used mostly in the new cars now because of the Federal Emission demand the plugs last 100,000 miles. Yes you can go to the dealer and have them replaced if one fails before your federal emissions warranty is out. But they have to be bad.

If you change them often no need to spend the extra money.

Yes all the gimmick plugs like Spitfire are nothing special. The government even made them stop claiming extra power.

Plugs go the path of least resistance and a forked electrode matters little as do many of the other crazy things.
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