When you talk to people about their classic cars they always like to say if their car is numbers matching. Should that be a worry when building a Fiero and thinking about an engine swap? Just case palm if I'm being dumb.
I have a stock car, but non of the body panels are original. I stopped caring a while ago lol. I have an 88 with an 87 engine lol. (I don't like the in pan oil filter.)
------------------ 1984 White Fiero Sport Coupe (Juliet) in restoration https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089093.html 1988 Red Fiero Standard Coupe (Bella) in restoration 1990 Black Buick Reatta (Noir) 2002 White Chevy Impala base(Haylie)
Its one of those things thats cool to say but, doesnt really matter unless youre going to sell to a super collector or snding to an auction like Mecums or Barrett Jackson. Other than that, youre everyday car enthusiast is really going to care or take the time to verify it.
The only Fieros that that will ever likely matter are completely stock 88 GTs, Formulas, and 84 Indys. Otherwise, not enough people care. I could be wrong, but it will take a very long time to prove it.
I'm a member of Pontiac Pickers classifieds on FB. The 60s - early 70s stuff is going stratospheric. But only if it's a GTO or Firebird. The mid 70s stuff is starting to increase. Mostly Firebirds. Only stratospheric if it's in very good condition. The 80s stuff is still just "old cars", even in great condition. The Fiero will probably follow this trend, keeping in mind that it was a "niche" vehicle, and a bit off the beaten path. The people looking for "numbers matching" Fieros will be the people who had them in high school and want to relive their youth, and have enough money to make such a purchase. They'll be out there, but relatively few in numbers. Just MHO.
------------------ Raydar 88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550 Praise the Lowered!
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-11-2014).]
Before 1987 matching VIN covers very few things. Frame, Main Body, engine and Trans.
1987 and newer. The VIN label is on most things. (Fed rules.) The above plus Every body panel, doors, hood, deck/trunk lid, etc. I think even the cradle but most of labels there got soak w/ oil etc.
If you wreck a panel, GM would not issue a new VIN tag for that panel. New panel from GM came w/ a new tag said replacement where VIN was. (I have one but can't remember exact label and too buried to take picture.)
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
It really only matters for musclecars and Corvettes. Fieros aren't hot collector items, so keeping them all original matching numbers parts isn't going to affect their value very much. Only for an extremely rare Fiero (like the 88 Prototype test mule car here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/094715.html), will such things matter.
If you've got an extreme low miles car (like an original 88 that only has lot miles on it), which you wish to keep original and as a collector item hoping that it will one day have value, it might also be something you'd want to do for it as well.
But those are extremely rare birds. For the common > 100K miles Fieros, it's not going to matter, as the general value of Fieros is very unlikely to ever reach the amounts that some of the classics go for.
Yeah, "numbers matching" is just another term to get thrown around and abused as the car's owner sees fit.
Another term that's suddenly everywhere (which I can't stand) is "survivor". Guys apply that word to their cars regardless whether its a dusty, rusty unrestored hulk or a perfect frame-off high-dollar restoration. Seriously, I've seen fantastic restorations or custom cars with modern fuel injected V8s, custom interiors, billet everything, smoothed firewall, etc, etc, all labelled as a "survivor". Its become a meaningless term.
I agree the term survivor is kind of stupid. A survivor car is one that was hit headon by a Kenworth, or fished out of the lake bottom and brought back to life. Restoration and clean up does not qualify it as a survivor car.
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Originally posted by css9450:
Yeah, "numbers matching" is just another term to get thrown around and abused as the car's owner sees fit.
Another term that's suddenly everywhere (which I can't stand) is "survivor". Guys apply that word to their cars regardless whether its a dusty, rusty unrestored hulk or a perfect frame-off high-dollar restoration. Seriously, I've seen fantastic restorations or custom cars with modern fuel injected V8s, custom interiors, billet everything, smoothed firewall, etc, etc, all labelled as a "survivor". Its become a meaningless term.
I agree the term survivor is kind of stupid. A survivor car is one that was hit headon by a Kenworth, or fished out of the lake bottom and brought back to life. Restoration and clean up does not qualify it as a survivor car.
I disagree.....your description would be a rebuilt wreck.
A survivor is an original, unmolested and unrestored car in very good condition. It survived!
I disagree.....your description would be a rebuilt wreck.
A survivor is an original, unmolested and unrestored car in very good condition. It survived!
Agree! And matching numbers on an 87 or 88 could be beneficial in knowing if the car has been damaged in an accident. Granted there's Auto-Chek or CarFax, but not everyone has access, so checking numbers on the spot would be easier. To me, it would make the car worth a little more than one that for whatever reason had a bunch of non-stock panels.
A survivor is an original, unmolested and unrestored car in very good condition. It survived!
I agree... That's what the word is supposed to mean. But increasingly I am seeing people calling everything a "survivor", like I said above. Engine swaps, custom repaints, frame-off restorations. Everything.
Agree! And matching numbers on an 87 or 88 could be beneficial in knowing if the car has been damaged in an accident. Granted there's Auto-Chek or CarFax, but not everyone has access, so checking numbers on the spot would be easier. To me, it would make the car worth a little more than one that for whatever reason had a bunch of non-stock panels.
It helps if you know to look for the stickers on all the panels. Unless of course the car has ever been repainted (properly). For a 25+ year old car, repainting is hardly unheard of, especially on one in great condition; unless it's been an extreme low miles storage queen and never really driven. If it's spent any reasonable time outdoors, then UV damage is inevitable. Even just sitting at a car show for 6 hours a day on weekends will take its toll after 25 years.
My 87 has been repainted and the stickers are still visible. I asked MAACO to cover them before painting and that was about the only thing they did correctly. The VIN numbers are still legible.
The people looking for "numbers matching" Fieros will be the people who had them in high school and want to relive their youth, and have enough money to make such a purchase.
That would be me! Except I was just out of high school when I bought my formula
